2025 Political Thread

[andyhb]

You can't just equate the moral direction of the two parties though, as incompetent as the Democrat leadership is and as corrupt as the fallout from Citizens United/etc is. Republicans have coalesced around Trump in a way that just won't happen for the Democrats. This is actually one of their problems.

Idk how many times I read before the election both here and elsewhere that "Project 2025 has nothing to do with Trump". That is complete and utter nonsense. Tell me that the hatred that festers in the Republican Party (that we have literally seen posted here) is the same on the other side. Why do Republicans/MAGA hate immigrants, science, and improving people's lives so much? Democrats did not summon an attempted coup based on a lie. Why do the Republicans in congress not hold this administration accountable and why is it always the job of the Democrats to "hold the moral high ground", as distorted as it may be?

Adding on to this, you can't normalize and come to agreements on things when one party in a two party system has been hijacked by fascist extremists. Sorry, but that's not the way the world works. Protesters in Los Angeles are calling for ICE to stop their raids targeting people who shouldn't even be on the government's radar. Meanwhile, right wing Twitter is itching to go there, suspend all rights, and literally start shooting and ask questions later (see the comments in almost any thread). In any other time, this type of conduct would be grounds for criminal investigations.

 

[Evan]

Adding on to this, you can't normalize and come to agreements on things when one party in a two party system has been hijacked by fascist extremists. Sorry, but that's not the way the world works. Protesters in Los Angeles are calling for ICE to stop their raids targeting people who shouldn't even be on the government's radar. Meanwhile, right wing Twitter is itching to go there, suspend all rights, and literally start shooting and ask questions later (see the comments in almost any thread). In any other time, this type of conduct would be grounds for criminal investigations.

In fairness, protesters (likely professional agitators) are doing more than merely calling on ICE to stop. The violence and vandalism is entirely counter-productive to the message and is EXACTLY what Trump wanted to see. Remember, January 6th = good for Trump and most of his supporters. It's only bad if their political opponents do it. For me, I see both examples as being immoral, unjustified, and counter-productive. Granted, one event was based on a wholly fabricated lie while the other event does have legitimate peaceful protesters.

Keep in mind that both parties have had opportunities for several decades to fix the badly broken immigration system. Instead, they all chose to use our immigration system's inoperable structure to make political hay every election cycle. The era of sincerity in politics, if it ever existed back in some quaint time, is beyond over. I've gone to DC before and met with people in Congress. Many of them are completely clueless about the immigration system and its numerous flaws. The others simply don't care, or, enjoy being able to use the issue to garner votes.

Now that voters' positions on immigration have hardened, it can be added to the list of intractable issues that our political system will never ever be able to fix. They'll get to it right about the time they seriously address the debt and the looming crisis with Social Security and other mandatory spending. A solid quarter of the country is now convinced that even legal immigration is a bad thing. Not sure how such mass delusion can be overcome, however, it isn't just the GOP who's to blame. When both parties absolutely refuse to reform the immigration system, and let illegal immigration flows reach historical highs, it was always going to lead to a major backlash.

I mean, the GOP is absolutely atrocious when it comes to immigration, and has been, but the Democrats are so so so far away from being innocent. Too late for them to find salvation. Now a whole lot of innocent immigrants must suffer. Listen, Stephen Miller gets sexually aroused every time he sees a crying 7 year old being ripped from their mother's arms. No one has ever wanted to be a concentration camp guard more than that guy. It is shocking to me that the Democrats have been so ineffective in combatting unpopular policy being pushed by a literal goon.

 

[bjdeming]

And people wearing MAGA hats walking through crowds of rowdy A-holes, just as the Proud Boys and other right-wing jerks did when the left-wing Antifa jerks trashed parts of downtown Portland a few years ago, with predictable results and plenty of news coverage.

Never before in the history of this country has hate been so profitable for so many people, from the thugs who find self-identity in it to the "aristocracy of the mind" (to take a line from Gettysburg) who are enjoying profits from all the clicks and, as Evan pointed out, making hay for 2026.

For the rest of us, it's painful and bewildering -- that strange flood of ICE agents on Friday as a deniably provocatory move, to start things off, and then one seriously messed up weekend all around, and now the Marines are being mentioned (though the Insurrection Act has not been called yet, as it was during the Rodney King riots, and AFAIK boots haven't hit the ground, though they probably will).

I remember those riots and the kid-gloves way that H. Bush handled the federal-state situation...well, I thought.

Big Mouth in the Bully Pulpit is another story, but I think Gov. Newsome, who along with the LA mayor is handling this well, is wrong in attributing the trouble to Trump's personality.

That's no more real IMO than his populist persona.

<Conspiracy theory> He's just aiding the long-term takeover of the USA by a bunch of super control freaks; the bewilderment we ordinary citizens feel is that of a frog who doesn't understand that the discomfort comes from hot water. But the people controlling the burner understand it very well.

We need to understand that, too.

Back in the Biden era I was surprised at all the illegal immigration from the south. Now I understand it very well. Had Hitler and the gang been calling the early shots, the Republic would have imported Jewish people right before the gang took over.

Hate greases the skids for power grabs.

But it's got to be applied with a deft hand when the takeover is something as good-willed and e pluribus unum as the USA, and the long view is definitely required. </conspiracy theory>

I don't think they can do it, but it's going to be ugly, and at the moment we don't have a John Wayne to make Rio Bravo in response to the gloom-minded High Noon.

Those too young to remember either movie are too young to realize the bounty of those "God Bless America" days -- a movie reference, too, as well as a famous song.

People were so much happier then, and more free, too, though they didn't always know it.

The prosperity and productive atmosphere from all that good-will and mellow bounty carried us into the 21st century but couldn't last forever. Now it has to be rediscovered and reestablished -- hopefully, not at the same costs that my parents' generation and earlier ones paid for it, but I don't know.

I do know that I've felt a lot better since making up my mind not to die angry. Something along those lines would be a step in the right direction for all this country right now.

That's real hard for a person to do, though -- it's a big struggle personally, of course -- and requires a moral code and religion, human nature being what it is.

We need something bigger than us to be good OR bad.

The people in control of the burner know this, and so they are being larger-than-life-size bad and keeping it simple without actually saying "follow me" -- and many Americans are being bad in so many ways.

I don't care, really, because I do have faith, though a different one from that of most folks here and I don't want to offend anyone. I will just mention one teaching, which is found in Christianity and some other major religions: Occasions of hate are never settled by hate: they are settled by absence of hate. This is the eternal law.

Or, you know, John Wayne, in Rio Bravo, pointing out a church, and his posse, in response to a throat-cutting tune the bad guys are playing at them all night long on the night before the big fight, doing this:



Why not?

 

[andyhb]

F*cking hell.

 

[bjdeming]

Right now I'm sticking to classic news sources and what I see is just talk...but talk intended to spread the scare, as Forrest and other generals on both sides of that classic US historic bad example would have said.

Reuters:

• Summary

• Marines could join National Guard in protecting ICE agents on raids
• Protests spread to New York, Atlanta, Chicago
• Trump says he is protecting LA; local officials say he is provoking division

LOS ANGELES, June 11 (Reuters) - U.S. troops in Los Angeles are authorized to detain people until police can arrest them, their commanding officer said on Wednesday, as hundreds of Marines prepared to move into a city rocked by protests over President Donald Trump's immigration raids.

On Wednesday, Los Angeles endured a sixth day of protests that have been largely peaceful but occasionally punctuated by violence. The protests have spread to other U.S. cities and hundreds of nationwide demonstrations are planned for Saturday.

AP:

...Trump, who has left open the possibility of invoking one the most extreme emergency powers he has in response to the protests, says he wants to “save Los Angeles” and argues Newsom is “incompetent.”...

The Marines are just sitting there at LA because the Insurrection Act has not yet been invoked (I didn't know what it's called until this thread).

They're trying to provoke a widespread insurrection, it seems to me -- "they" being the control freaks I've referenced in earlier posts (it's an amorphous group, cloaked necessarily in deniability right now, but one that I think is very real and will probably spend the rest of their lives giving each other awards at elaborate public celebrations if their "great revolution" succeeds now rather than turning America into a Viking-style funeral pyre for their particular group of Boomers, which I think would be the only realistic outcome).

I wonder if Musk cleared out because he saw this coming.

They wouldn't stand a chance if we, as a people, could look beyond ethnicity and the politics of identity and agree that this is stupid and our elected reps who are supporting it are morons and, in some cases, dangerous to our civil society, which is, according to A. Lincoln (who was correct), the latest, best hope for the world.

 

[bjdeming]

I see two easy ways out of this crisis between now and Friday -- easy in the sense of stopping the stupidity in its tracks, not in the sense of doability: hate's ugly divisiveness is VERY likely to make either one impossible (though I hope for #2):

1. The California legislature passes a resolution in support of the governor. The TOP -- Trump's Own Party -- is it strong enough to stop this? Are other issues likely to put the kibosh on it?

2. This coming weekend's immigration protests , mentioned prominently in the news as part of passing along the "skeer" (just because I'm following the wire services doesn't mean I trust their good intentions), turn into peaceful "Hands Off" rallies throughout the land, attended by hundreds of thousands of people from all sorts of backgrounds.

It would have happened in recent decades. It did happen a little earlier this year at Indivisible rallies one day (and was pretty much buried by the wire services, though UPI did mention the numbers once, while Indivisible seems to have become Invisible in terms of headline stories).

I think it's the thought of #2 that's keeping the velvet glove on the iron fist just now. We must not be given a reason to rally in support of our nation and ourselves -- that counteracts the "scare."

 

[bjdeming]

Backbone.

 

[bjdeming]

Saturday, Flag Day, there will apparently be also non-immigration-rights protests. I wonder if it will just be a progressivist thing or, as in the Hands-Off protests, something that will draw those hundreds off thousands of us all again.

 

[bjdeming]

A year ago, did you ever think things would come to this, really? And yet they have.

 

[bjdeming]

Lots of Bluesky images from all over. It looks like the Fourth of July, not the 1970s mass protests.

The wire services aren't ignoring this one.

• UPI headlines "Millions participate" but says in text "Millions are expected."
• AP seems to be trying to cover all sides equally in their live coverage, but focuses on the trouble spots (barring the separate tragedy in Minnesota, not many).
• What IMO is a Soviet-style military parade is now reported as an Army birthday celebration not what it has been called over past weeks: a Trump birthday celebration. (Now it's "Trump, who coincidentally turns 79 on the same day..." Source with current headline still calling it "Trump's military parade.")

Some of my favorite current bsky tweets:



Me too.

 

[bjdeming]

Okay, I'll try to keep it to a minimum, but AMERICA TURNED OUT TODAY!!!

 

[bjdeming]

I was cheered by the many comments, in tweets and articles, from No Kings participants who said they regained hope -- other Americans besides me felt dejected by the state of things and then we've been delighted to discover that the America we all know is still here but not getting any oxygen by the "Media is the message" crowd.

Plus people in generations that came after me` got what may have been their first civics lesson. It was a powerful one.

The "skeer" is gone for now. It will be brought back. But way fewer people will be fooled by it again.
-----


`Ta heck with labels like X, Millennial, or Zoomer. You only got them because the Boomers attached one to their own as part of their/our self-fascination. What you are is the latest in a long line of individual parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents from many different backgrounds and what you have inherited is America, whose heritage is unwritten (unlike the blueprints for its institutions) and goes back more than two hundred years...for good as well as evil.

You'll screw it up, of course, just as we did, and our parents before us, but you'll pass along some good, too, because it's good to be an American.

 

[bjdeming]

As the next big skeer builds -- external, this time, and a very real and sticky one -- the NAACP tells it like it is.

First time I've ever agreed with a quote from Rep. Taylor Greene.

Taylor Greene told conservative news network OANN: "Well, the truth is, if we get involved in this war, we are going to see terror attacks right here on our homeland."

I'm sure we'll boost up our security apparatus for that possibility, likely or not. On second thought, I don't agree with her: I'm not completely convinced that she's not adding to the skeer.

Meanwhile, what about that Qatar jet, that "big, beautiful bill" that's failing, and the physical takedown and cuffing of a US senator who asked the DHS secretary a question recently at a press conference? These are just the few overshadowed but troubling Trump 2.0 issues that quickly come to mind -- wonder what else is going on.

 

[Mike S]

This one bugs me.

The people on the left suddenly forget they tried to install Kamala Harris as POTUS. Maybe not quite a coronation, but as close as you'll get to one in this country.

Also, the left has proven time and time again that they do not believe in the objective truth of science. They play games with it like everyone else does.

They will try and convict a conservative, or someone they believe supports the right side of the political spectrum, the moment something is uncovered or happens.

The Army celebration has been planned for over a year. The military parade is the part that Trump added to the festivities. I've seen several who thought all of this was planned practically overnight. The same day, the Brits were having a military parade as well. It was presided over by the King of England, of course, but the monarchy these days is symbolic. There certainly was no wailing or gnashing of teeth over it.

And the marching troops that everyone was losing their mind over weren't even carrying weapons.

I find it typical that a day set aside to celebrate the United States Army was usurped by the left for their hatred of Trump. People who know me know my feelings regarding Donald Trump, but I thought this past Saturday was a terrible look for our country.

 

[bjdeming]

Fortunately, the "kids" are not unaware of the underlying problem, although they express it generationally rather than L/R. There was this, too:



What will come of the No Kings response and the sense of community and hope that it gave to those who are most invested in the future? Only time can tell.

 

[bjdeming]

Reuters:

"[The Democrat] party leaders have work to do in recruiting candidates for Congress in 2026 -- and for the White House in 2028.

Some 62% of self-identified Democrats in the poll agreed with a statement that "the leadership of the Democratic Party should be replaced with new people." Only 24% disagreed and the rest said they weren't sure or didn't answer."

Independents are going to be important next year, too. If the Dems turn even slightly back to their mid-20th-century populist stance, it will draw a lot of us and make Congressional Republicans in either house a rare sight indeed.

But do the party leaders want to change?

 

[bjdeming]

I find it typical that a day set aside to celebrate the United States Army was usurped by the left for their hatred of Trump. People who know me know my feelings regarding Donald Trump, but I thought this past Saturday was a terrible look for our country.

I've been hoping someone else would say this, but maybe it's for me because my post was quoted: The millions who turned out on Flag Day in what felt like an early Fourth of July were not protesting the military or the Army anniversary; far from it.

They were making a positive statement, one that I am not able to put into words, though I can see and feel it very strongly. (Of course, this wordster has tried , with help from a much more skilled writer who is a shining example of Mississippi's great literary tradition -- a thing the Left would scoff at because of the Fifties and Sixties (18-- or 19--, take your pick), while thoroughly ignoring the coexistent and equally longstanding Yankee tradItion of violent and deadly, though, post-1970s, surficially more deniable, prejudice, including prejudice against Mississippi and the rest of the South.)

Basically, it's human nature to hate, but we all do our best to rise above it. Last Saturday, millions of us did and this was in response to a positive call that, also, that continental army was formed in response to, some 250 years ago: No Kings.

No powerful faces between us and our flag. No gigantic figure returning the salute of much smaller-scale heroes (who should be and really are the heroes we honor).

Of course, media in land where the tradition of royalty and aristocracy is so deeply ingrained would paint this picture of the parade as it really was presented in American media words --

Of course monarchists would call it that.

I do apologize for calling the Flag Day parade a Soviet-style parade. There I misspoke, carried away by hatred spawned by what I truly believe is a coup attempt by a small but influential and well-founded bunch of white small-"F" fascists from, ultimately though deniably, both sides of the aisles.

As mentioned, my struggle towards a state of mind in which I won't die angry is a difficult one. Human nature is hard to overcome sometimes.

Nonetheless, get that troublemaker's face out from in front of our flag, BBC. He's just America's current CEO, not America, which actually also came out by the millions on June 14th, 2025, to show support for the basic reason why we have a military in the first place.

 

[OH-IOan]

I've been hoping someone else would say this, but maybe it's for me because my post was quoted: The millions who turned out on Flag Day in what felt like an early Fourth of July were not protesting the military or the Army anniversary; far from it.

They were making a positive statement, one that I am not able to put into words, though I can see and feel it very strongly. (Of course, this wordster has tried , with help from a much more skilled writer who is a shining example of Mississippi's great literary tradition -- a thing the Left would scoff at because of the Fifties and Sixties (18-- or 19--, take your pick), while thoroughly ignoring the coexistent and equally longstanding Yankee tradItion of violent and deadly, though, post-1970s, surficially more deniable, prejudice, including prejudice against Mississippi and the rest of the South.)

Basically, it's human nature to hate, but we all do our best to rise above it. Last Saturday, millions of us did and this was in response to a positive call that, also, that continental army was formed in response to, some 250 years ago: No Kings.

No powerful faces between us and our flag. No gigantic figure returning the salute of much smaller-scale heroes (who should be and really are the heroes we honor).

Of course, media in land where the tradition of royalty and aristocracy is so deeply ingrained would paint this picture of the parade as it really was presented in American media words --



Of course monarchists would call it that.

I do apologize for calling the Flag Day parade a Soviet-style parade. There I misspoke, carried away by hatred spawned by what I truly believe is a coup attempt by a small but influential and well-founded bunch of white small-"F" fascists from, ultimately though deniably, both sides of the aisles.

As mentioned, my struggle towards a state of mind in which I won't die angry is a difficult one. Human nature is hard to overcome sometimes.

Nonetheless, get that troublemaker's face out from in front of our flag, BBC. He's just America's current CEO, not America, which actually also came out by the millions on June 14th, 2025, to show support for the basic reason why we have a military in the first place.

I thought it was genius that the “no kings” organizers protested across the country instead of at the parade, so that he couldn’t go claim that the crowds of protestors weren’t just people celebrating. Also good to note that the protests broke the famous “3.5% rule”, which basically says that “that when 3.5% of the population of a country protest nonviolently against a government, that government is likely to fall from power”. Over 11 million people turned up (hell, I would’ve 100% been at the Columbus protest had I not been traveling to Cali).

Also, watch Portland, there has been a noticeable rise in videos of people clashing with ICE in the past two days. Wouldn't be surprised to see a LA-type situation unfold.

And on the whole “argh, the left are protesting our beautiful big military again” point, that’s completely missing the point of the protests. It was to make a point that many Americans are not at all happy with the state of our country, and mainly to protest Trump’s autocratic actions (including having a giant military parade coincidentally on his birthday). And it worked; the parade was largely overshadowed by the massive protests.

 

[bjdeming]

watch Portland, there has been a noticeable rise in videos of people clashing with ICE in the past two days. Wouldn't be surprised to see a LA-type situation unfold.

Nah, that was just the usual hotheads and as far as I know (not far), the Portland police handled the situation quite well and definitively, though I'm sure the antique anarchists up there would love to see their glory days return.

Edit: Re: Portland, I got curious (generally I ignore it and haven't been up there since 2015 but of course I checked it on the 14th, where I read about the peaceful No Kings gatherings and the hotheads who later went for ICE and got arrested and also some publicity).. Per this story, the immigration protests are daily but small, and the police have got it in hand. The DHS quotes in that story sound like someone's trying to turn this molehill into Mount Everest. In contrast, 2020 was bad. The police did not always control it, but somehow no one thought of calling in the military and everything eventually cooled down. Of course, those anarchists, despite the excuse they were using, were white; ethnic cleansing was still called by its true name and considered a foreign thing, not labeled "remigration" and seriously discussed at top federal levels. What a big difference five years can make.

The "LA-type situation" in the titular city, brought on by that provocatory inflow of lots of ICE enforcers on the 6th, quieted right down with the MASSIVE and mostly peaceful No Kings protests downtown --



-- so much so that Crown Prince JD showed to try to ignite trouble again, as it seemed to me with some of his inflammatory comments -- for instance, mocking Senator Alex Padilla, with whom Vance served in Congress, and this:

...“The president has a very simple proposal to everybody in every city, every community, every town whether big or small, if you enforce your own laws and if you protect federal law enforcement, we’re not going to send in the National Guard because it’s unnecessary,” Vance told journalists after touring a federal complex in Los Angeles.

Back in the America I grew up in, local and state law enforcement cooperated with federal law enforcement (or not, depending on the situation, the attitude of the feds (who could be quite bossy, as the documentary Die Hard shows) and/or the degree of local corruption and/or the politics involved -- it was not perfect, it was American).

Back in those days, the feds did not go like gangbusters into a tense neighborhood situation that they themselves had fostered country-wide and then whine because it caused trouble.

They were grownups back then, though undoubtedly of similar ages to today's ICE enforcers. And so were their bosses grownups, too -- up to and including the one in the Oval Office.

Here's where that LA call-in-the-military situation stands currently. According to Wired (paywalled), the Marines are operating under Title 10 at the moment.

Not that there's any need for either one right now in terms of public safety in LA, even if one argues that local authorities had lost control, which overall they didn't; most of the immigration protesters were peaceful in the first place, and the curfew was lifted days ago. I think the Trumpeteers are just trying to add muscle to ICE -- yes, it's an unconstitutional use of the military. Fortunately, there are still safeguards and the thing is working its way through the courts.

H. Bush handled a legitimate public disorder crisis in LA during the Rodney King riots so much more skillfully.

But what the hey -- now we've got this:



Actually, given the unspeakable but confirmed horrors of the October 2023 terrorist attacks, I'm sympathetic to Israel's moves, though it's not going to work, bombing somebody to stop them from building a bomb.

As for us, cutting through the emotional and consitutional-question public uproar for a moment, I can't help wondering what Trump's pal Putin has gotten to stay out of it, especially after reading that Indonesia is joining BRICS (as is Colombia, in this hemisphere).

A lot of the world's shipping goes through one Indonesian strait (not Sunda, the other big one). If closure of that ever was threatened...we'd all be in trouble. Again.

I just wonder sometimes if this country can survive another three years of Trump.