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2020 Political Thread (3 Viewers)


Evan

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I see the media and many people on the left in our country have decided that Kyle Rittenhouse is a white-supremacist, terrorist, etc who cavalierly mowed down unarmed protesters who until their murder were fine upstanding citizens.

Here's the problem. I watched the event unfold live. I saw both shootings. The entire narrative above couldn't be further from the truth. I wish I could say I'm shocked that the mainstream media has so botched their reporting on this issue, but it's par for the course at this point.

Truth, objectivity, facts, etc no longer matter in our society. It is all about emotion and narrative. Most people have seemingly never understood that anytime an event like this occurs it should be analyzed thoroughly and responsibly -- not hysterical conclusions based solely on opinion, political beliefs, or a narrative they want to be true.

It's identical to the police shootings that have caused social unrest in our country. Each one should be judged as a discrete and separate event, but people refuse to do it. They have no objectivity. Michael Brown was a good shoot. Philando Castille's was not. The shooting at the Wendy's in Atlanta was a good shoot. George Floyd's was not.

It's too early to tell yet, when it comes to the shooting of Jacob Blake, but apparently the entire country has already come to a conclusion one way or another and made up their minds.

I'm not going to hold my breath, but I won't be surprised if the media never fully reports what happened in the Rittenhouse shooting. Will they mention that several of those shot were convicted felons? Of which at least two had been convicted for a violent felony or rape. Probably even less likely that they will mention that Mr. Rittenhouse had been traveling back and forth to Kenosha cleaning graffiti off of buildings, and had been voluntarily serving the community there in other ways. I haven't even seen many mention that in the second altercation that Mr. Rittenhouse was bashed in the head from behind with a skateboard, and then seconds later a different individual accosted Mr. Rittenhouse with a loaded Glock pistol as he laid on the ground.

I wonder why those items haven't been mentioned or have received scant attention? Why is it when video is shown they edit out the parts showing those shot assaulting and battering Mr. Rittenhouse.

Our society cannot function if we have become completely divorced from truth, fact, and reality. It simply cannot.
 

KoD

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Is that what the news media is portraying of the situation?
I've had a different experience when the story was breaking around sites like reddit where there was a large amount of agreement from the video evidence that the young guy seemed justified in shooting those people who were chasing and attempting to assault or execute him (in the case of the Glock wielding guy). Of course we don't know what transpired prior to it, but he was obviously being chased and trying to flee. How far do you have to run before you can turn around and shoot?

I'm not surprised that news media is warping things as they all do as a way to add more coals in the hype machines engines. I'm at least satisfied that the left leaning forums I've seen are not doing such things.

Edit: They've changed their tune a bit since yesterday but still there's a lot of counter-arguing those who are jumping to conclusions.
 
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Jacob

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I've seen it in the media and on the cesspool that is twitter. I don't really frequent other boards with much political talk.


 
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Evan

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Two idiots arguing.
It's not just them. I've seen it in a lot of places, and most of them has done an absolutely horrible job of even coming close to accurately describing what happened.

I mean, if I know that the first guy who was shot tried to create numerous altercations with people about 30-45 minutes before he was shot (using racial slurs and saying shoot me shoot me along with pushing people), that he did a significant amount of time in prison in Arizona for raping a minor, and that he was chasing Rittenhouse and threw an object at him before almost pinning him between several vehicles, then why doesn't the media? It's not that hard to go back and watch the recorded live-streams and do basic research on the first individual who was killed.

I'm just beyond sick and tired of the mob mentality which pushes a political narrative irrespective of the facts. In fact, it's FACTS BE DAMNED, and instead they create a fabricated or misleading narrative.

But, I digress. Again, people largely refuse to examine individual situations and issues anymore. They see what their social network and in-group is saying, and then they form their opinion off of that. No kind of evidence will convince them otherwise.
 

Evan

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Let me be clear, some outlets initially stumbled with bad headlines or inaccurate summaries, but then actually did real journalism and have presented a balanced approach.

The New York Times, in particular, did a really good breakdown based off of video footage and I think it was extremely fair. A few other outlets have done similar work, or at least did drop the ball initially after the shooting. But, the media malpractice was VERY widespread this time around. I saw a number of outlets and wire-reports that were just flat out false, wholly inaccurate, or completely distorted.

I'm not necessarily alleging a bias due to left/right politics. It's more than the news media rushes to get a story out or be first, has few individuals on staff with understanding or expertise related to firearms, self-defense, or they lack an understanding of society outside of big cities or their own social bubble. They don't understand how common AR-15s and "high-capacity" magazines are, they don't understand gun laws, and they have gone out of their way to label these protests as always peaceful while ignoring rioting and labeling people like those shot by Rittenhouse as "protesters" when oftentimes they are agitators or rioters.

That's my beef. The clueless politicians commenting are in even bigger bubbles than many in the media.

A lot of what I mentioned above is exactly why such a large number of people abandoned the status quo and elected Trump. It's ironic since he's a NYC liberal who cares nothing about the common man and has no understanding of his struggles, but Trump's longstanding grievances against the media and society's elite are the balm that many people crave after repeatedly being burned by the same issues I mention in my earlier posts and above. That's one of the reasons I'm upset (outside of it being completely unfair to Rittenhouse) is that it makes many people feel like Trump is their only choice even if they don't care for him or were almost convinced not to support his re-election. Because at least with Trump, the thought goes, SOMEONE will voice their concerns, or, at least, pay lip service to them.
 

Evan

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Let me make one final point. There's also a disturbing trend on the right of people wanting to make Rittenhouse into some kind of hero. He's not. He should not have had that firearm in his possession as it was illegal for him to do so. He should have to pay the consequences for THAT criminal act.

What Rittenhouse did was self-defense out of necessity. I've seen a lot of people praise him -- don't get me wrong, by all accounts this kid truly just wanted to help out -- but you can't break the law to do that. We all need to play by the rules.

Some of the rhetoric surrounding the hero worship of Rittenhouse is deeply disturbing. What occurred is a truly unfortunate situation, and no one has clean hands in it. That said, it was obviously self-defense, but Rittenhouse will have to pay the price for committing his own crime something a competent parent would've instructed and counseled him against, if not prohibited his access to the firearm outside of the exceptions allowed by law.

That's all I've got. I find both the crazed rush to judgement/media malpractice, and the hero worship to be indicative of a truly damaged and unbalanced society.
 
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Mike S

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How is Joe Biden riddled with dementia, but at the same time running a multinational crime syndicate out of Ukraine?
How is Donald Trump the biggest idiot to ever occupy the White House but simultaneously able to coordinate with the Russians to steal an American election?
 

gangstonc

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How is Donald Trump the biggest idiot to ever occupy the White House but simultaneously able to coordinate with the Russians to steal an American election?
I think he is a masterful cheater. He’s done it all his life. He’s more of an emotional idiot. I truly believe he is very intelligent in some ways. That’s how.
 

gangstonc

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I can see why they want the debates canceled.

“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”

2 old men yelling.
 

Kory

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2 old men yelling.
It may or may not be. But Pelosi’s ridiculous suggestion to not debate Trump is incredibly insulting to the American people: “I don’t think there should be any debate. I wouldn’t legitimize a conversation with him, nor a debate in terms of the presidency of the United States.”

I am sick and tired of politicians and leaders in this country thinking they can be some adjudicator to what the American people can see from their elected officials or potential elected officials. I want to see policy discussed on the stage. I want to see the potential leader of the free world to be challenged by the opposition. It’s NOT up to her to tell me what I can and can’t watch based on what she determines to be a perversion of truth.

We can’t even get Biden to answer a single freakin question after one of his press conferences/speeches, so Nancy, please tell me how we can get a better grasp of Joe Biden the candidate?
 
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Kory

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Yes, this rant goes for Meemaw Ivey and Tuberville too. Those two would be verbally slapped around on stage by their opponents. So, wouldn’t that statement by Nancy play right into the “Biden would get twisted into a mental pretzel by Trump” narrative?

I’m at least glad the Biden campaign said they will still be debating. Good. The people need it.
 
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gangstonc

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It may or may not be. But Pelosi’s ridiculous suggestion to not debate Trump is incredibly insulting to the American people: “I don’t think there should be any debate. I wouldn’t legitimize a conversation with him, nor a debate in terms of the presidency of the United States.”

I am sick and tired of politicians and leaders in this country thinking they can be some adjudicator to what the American people can see from their elected officials or potential elected officials. I want to see policy discussed on the stage. I want to see the potential leader of the free world to be challenged by the opposition. It’s NOT up to her to tell me what I can and can’t watch based on what she determines to be a perversion of truth.

We can’t even get Biden to answer a single freakin question after one of his press conferences/speeches, so Nancy, please tell me how we can get a better grasp of Joe Biden the candidate?
Trump to OANN, in an interview last week, about his news conference strategy: "What I do now is, if I don't like a question I'll say, "Thank you very much. Bye bye.' And I leave...What happens then is that everybody gets angry at the reporter that asked that obnoxious question."

Trump is the one who hasn’t put out an agenda for his second term, and couldn’t come up with an answer when asked verbally.

I’m sure you saw the stance of the GOO on what policies the convention was going to push, that was horsepoo.

the debates will be Biden jumbling his words and Trump insulting him and the left. Waste of time, but they should happen.
 

Evan

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I can see why they want the debates canceled.

Biden has a stutter and has for decades. Because of that, he recognizes when he goes to say something that he's going to hang on it and not be able to say it. That leads to him using several different processes for re-directing what he was going to say or explaining the main idea using words or phrases that may seem less clear or direct. That also leads to him interrupting himself and trying to explain an idea using words he feels he's less likely to struggle with.

I knew someone who had a significantly worse stutter than Biden. It could take them minutes to say a sentence or two. It caused me a develop a lot of empathy for those who stutter -- it's a very difficult, challenging, and embarrassing condition.

All people experience cognitive decline as they age. I'd imagine even a slight cognitive decline, that potentially wouldn't even be noticeable in a non-stutterer, is significantly more likely to be evident in someone with a stutter because of the intense focus and brain power a stutterer must use when trying to control their stutter while speaking in public.
 

Kory

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Biden has a stutter and has for decades. Because of that, he recognizes when he goes to say something that he's going to hang on it and not be able to say it. That leads to him using several different processes for re-directing what he was going to say or explaining the main idea using words or phrases that may seem less clear or direct. That also leads to him interrupting himself and trying to explain an idea using words he feels he's less likely to struggle with.

I knew someone who had a significantly worse stutter than Biden. It could take them minutes to say a sentence or two. It caused me a develop a lot of empathy for those who stutter -- it's a very difficult, challenging, and embarrassing condition.

All people experience cognitive decline as they age. I'd imagine even a slight cognitive decline, that potentially wouldn't even be noticeable in a non-stutterer, is significantly more likely to be evident in someone with a stutter because of the intense focus and brain power a stutterer must use when trying to control their stutter while speaking in public.
He didn't really have many issues stuttering throughout the rest of the speech that I caught, but I've noticed instances that involve discussing numbers, he often jumbles them badly (not sure if that is related to a stutter). I distinctly remember the Democratic debates in February he wrongly claimed 150 million died of gun violence in America and 119 million of COVID during a campaign stop in June although he corrects himself afterwards. There are other examples as well.

How I take today's speech is that he was reading from a teleprompter and he either missed a line as it was going by/the text was going too fast. I've given speeches in front of large auditoriums as well as taught classes where I have looked at the wrong line in the PowerPoint throwing me off (similar to what I think happened to Biden). But, what surprised me is the stammering as if he doesn't seem to fully comprehend what he was reading or the numbers he reviews. That's how I take it.
 
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KoD

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Biden's "senility" seems like a textbook case for a healthy 70s year old person. I deal with dementia, Alzheimer's and all forms of mild, moderate to severe age related brain degeneration/atrophy with and without comorbid disease. The way he speaks and conveys ideas (even with his speech impediment) suggests to me that he's quite sharp for his age. That's not to say he doesn't have typical degenerative changes you see with advancing age, but he seems to be in the spectrum of people who are of little to no concern from a healthcare perspective in my opinion. Of course my perspective maybe skewed because I deal with the sick population mostly, but when we get patients who are the same age as Biden and are coherent, ambulatory, good historians, we say hallelujah! Even relatively healthy patients of that age who come in for falls or a broken bone are seldom as sharp as Biden seems to be. Now is he mentally fit to be the President of the United States? That's another question.
Given what I know, read, heard and seen, my opinion is yes. Overall I think Biden's policy is substantially more important to debate than his mental acuity. It's good to discuss all aspects of a presidential candidate though. I just don't see any red flags. There's clips of speeches that when isolated can be blown to big proportions, perhaps to advance ones suspicion or agenda of him being unfit, but looking at his capabilities and knowledge as a whole shows me little concern that's he's afflicted with advanced mental decline. Just my two cents regarding his age and intellect.
 

Jacob

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It's not just them. I've seen it in a lot of places, and most of them has done an absolutely horrible job of even coming close to accurately describing what happened.

I mean, if I know that the first guy who was shot tried to create numerous altercations with people about 30-45 minutes before he was shot (using racial slurs and saying shoot me shoot me along with pushing people), that he did a significant amount of time in prison in Arizona for raping a minor, and that he was chasing Rittenhouse and threw an object at him before almost pinning him between several vehicles, then why doesn't the media? It's not that hard to go back and watch the recorded live-streams and do basic research on the first individual who was killed.

I'm just beyond sick and tired of the mob mentality which pushes a political narrative irrespective of the facts. In fact, it's FACTS BE DAMNED, and instead they create a fabricated or misleading narrative.

But, I digress. Again, people largely refuse to examine individual situations and issues anymore. They see what their social network and in-group is saying, and then they form their opinion off of that. No kind of evidence will convince them otherwise.
Here's NPR's version of "FACTS BE DAMNED"

 

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