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Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

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maroonedinhsv said:
Note that both times, he stated "if" they share it "seriously". It happens often, and it has happened here many times. He's right - it does tell you something about the person that posts it. I have no reason to think that you believed it to be real. However, if you did know it was fake, I will say this: I believe posting intentionally false "news" in a non-humor (although often humorous) thread is a bad move.
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Maybe but sometimes you all get to serious in here and I thought a Laugh maybe warranted.
 
Trump is falling apart and devolving before our very eyes. His tweets have become increasingly unhinged. RTing civil war fantasies that hinge upon his impeachment, claiming a Congressman committed treason and inquiring why he hasn't been arrested, etc. He even RTed a Trump/Shark parody account recently. He's desperately searching for ANYTHING to attack those attempting to hold him accountable, and he's trying to needlessly inflame tensions as much as possible.

I've paid close attention to the spin coming out of the White House, Trump campaign, and Trump's most ardent GOP defenders. All they have are debunked conspiracy theories or blatantly fabricated claims that cannot hold up under even the slightest bit of scrutiny. Trump's strategy seems to be to quadruple down on his base and inflame their tensions to the point that a potential impeachment results in actual violence. That behavior, alone, should be impeachable.

I've been trying to take a wait and see approach to this whole Ukraine mess. Partially because there's been some major issues with the accuracy of recent MSM reporting, and partially because we've got an election coming up in slightly more than a year, and Trump would need a miracle exponentially larger than his 2016 good fortune to not be absolutely shellacked by one of the top-polling Democratic candidates for President. However, the last 48 hours or so has completely erased any patience I had to "wait and see" and it had similarly eliminated any potential skepticism or concern I had relating to impeachment this late in Trump's term. Seeing the outright lies, fabrications, red-herrings, and conspiracies trotted out this weekend by Trump, the WH, Kevin McCarthy, Jim Jordan and GOP leadership, I no longer believe there's any option left other than impeachment. This kind of insane and criminal behavior and cult-like politics have to end.
 
Evan said:
John Solomon doesn't write articles. He writes opinion pieces. There's a a reason there's a a giant OPINION label listed before any of his conspiracy theories and rants.
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He's been doing a lot of investigative journalism the past few years Evan.
 
Evan said:
Trump is falling apart and devolving before our very eyes. His tweets have become increasingly unhinged. RTing civil war fantasies that hinge upon his impeachment, claiming a Congressman committed treason and inquiring why he hasn't been arrested, etc. He even RTed a Trump/Shark parody account recently. He's desperately searching for ANYTHING to attack those attempting to hold him accountable, and he's trying to needlessly inflame tensions as much as possible.

I've paid close attention to the spin coming out of the White House, Trump campaign, and Trump's most ardent GOP defenders. All they have are debunked conspiracy theories or blatantly fabricated claims that cannot hold up under even the slightest bit of scrutiny. Trump's strategy seems to be to quadruple down on his base and inflame their tensions to the point that a potential impeachment results in actual violence. That behavior, alone, should be impeachable.

I've been trying to take a wait and see approach to this whole Ukraine mess. Partially because there's been some major issues with the accuracy of recent MSM reporting, and partially because we've got an election coming up in slightly more than a year, and Trump would need a miracle exponentially larger than his 2016 good fortune to not be absolutely shellacked by one of the top-polling Democratic candidates for President. However, the last 48 hours or so has completely erased any patience I had to "wait and see" and it had similarly eliminated any potential skepticism or concern I had relating to impeachment this late in Trump's term. Seeing the outright lies, fabrications, red-herrings, and conspiracies trotted out this weekend by Trump, the WH, Kevin McCarthy, Jim Jordan and GOP leadership, I no longer believe there's any option left other than impeachment. This kind of insane and criminal behavior and cult-like politics have to end.
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You are not serious right? This is another joke? Where did you get this babylon bee material from?
 
Nobody cares. Nobody is out in the world talking about this. Now most of the tweets and stories posted and quotes on here are debunked. From both sides. Those with truth in them the truth is buried and obscured by rumor, innuendo, and conjecture. Listen to Kasich. The chance to impeach Trump is gone. Now, what are the democrats going to campaign on? More of the same. They have no other game plan besides trash trump on some obscure stuff. Don’t come back on your high horse explaining the importance. Not because I don’t care but because nobody does and if you tell them now that a wolf is chewing their leg they won’t believe you. Remember nobody cared about Obama’s birth certificate or any of that garbage. Nobody is listening to the constant same ole from both sides. If they don’t have a plan besides trump bad must go or climate crisis socialism then guess what we are stuck with trump four more years.
 
skelly said:
Nobody cares. Nobody is out in the world talking about this. Now most of the tweets and stories posted and quotes on here are debunked. From both sides. Those with truth in them the truth is buried and obscured by rumor, innuendo, and conjecture. Listen to Kasich. The chance to impeach Trump is gone. Now, what are the democrats going to campaign on? More of the same. They have no other game plan besides trash trump on some obscure stuff. Don’t come back on your high horse explaining the importance. Not because I don’t care but because nobody does and if you tell them now that a wolf is chewing their leg they won’t believe you. Remember nobody cared about Obama’s birth certificate or any of that garbage. Nobody is listening to the constant same ole from both sides. If they don’t have a plan besides trump bad must go or climate crisis socialism then guess what we are stuck with trump four more years.
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I agree with you that the democrats don't have plan. They never seem to be able to get it together. But, lots of people are talking about what Trump has done here. This is a big issue.
 
JayF said:
You are not serious right? This is another joke? Where did you get this babylon bee material from?
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Please specify the issues you have with what I stated. Thank you.
 
Matt said:
Evan is such a Never Trumper he will believe the most crazy assertions said or written about him by the MSM.
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Trump's own administration released the transcript and finally allowed the whistleblower report to be released. What do either one have to do with the mainstream media? I've read the primary documents myself. They show multiple attempts by Trump to solicit "favors" in exchange for selling more Javelin missiles to Ukraine or for releasing military aid previously approved by Congress.

Trump’s own State Department, National Security Council, and other members of the cabinet all wanted the funds released, and the whistleblower report speaks at length about how those involved in the interagency process were told the military aid to Ukraine was being held up on the direct order of Donald Trump, and no explanation or policy rational was given to explain what that was, even though doing so is an incredibly rare and strange event.

I haven't even mentioned the absolute insanity regarding the President's private attorney conducting diplomacy and pressuring allies to conduct criminal investigations of a political rival of the President using federal government resources. Not to mention that said attorney (Giuliani) did so under the direct order and command of the President of the United States.

I'd like to know how you think this information came from "the MSM" when all of it came directly from Trump's or Giuliani's own mouthes or from the Ukraine call transcript/whistleblower report.

Trump appointed the ICIG, and in his letter to the Director of National Intelligence, he stated this his OWN preliminary investigation had substantiated the whistleblower's primary allegation that Trump pressured the President of Ukraine to take actions to help Trump's 2020 reelection campaign. At some point and time, the cries of "it's the deep state swamp" have become utterly laughable as time after time the supposed "deep state agent" is someone Trump personally appointed to a key position in the federal government. Either Trump is a fool and an extremely poor arbiter of character and competency, or there's something very damning about Trump's own appointees consistently telling the truth about his actions and behavior in office. You pick, Matt.
 
skelly said:
Nobody cares. Nobody is out in the world talking about this. Now most of the tweets and stories posted and quotes on here are debunked. From both sides. Those with truth in them the truth is buried and obscured by rumor, innuendo, and conjecture. Listen to Kasich. The chance to impeach Trump is gone. Now, what are the democrats going to campaign on? More of the same. They have no other game plan besides trash trump on some obscure stuff. Don’t come back on your high horse explaining the importance. Not because I don’t care but because nobody does and if you tell them now that a wolf is chewing their leg they won’t believe you. Remember nobody cared about Obama’s birth certificate or any of that garbage. Nobody is listening to the constant same ole from both sides. If they don’t have a plan besides trump bad must go or climate crisis socialism then guess what we are stuck with trump four more years.
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1. What tweets and stories are you referring to that have been debunked? The primary source documents consisting of the call transcript and the whistleblower complaint speak for themselves. No interpretation is required.

2. Numerous recent polls show a measurable shift in the percentage of Americans supporting impeachment. Particularly among non-partisans and independents. So, clearly, some people do care. Quite a bit, actually.

3. What "obscure stuff" are you referring to? Trying to pressure a foreign ally into opening an investigation of your opponent lest you withhold critical aid that Congress previously funded is unconstitutional, an abuse of power, an offer to trade power of your office for personal gain, etc. These are not obscure things. They're incredibly serious things. Congress has the absolute power of the purse. The executive branch was not given any authority or latitude to hold back the disbursement of previously authorized funds so that Trump could improve his chances in 2020 and benefit personally.

Finally, and most recently, both the White House and the courts have held that Trump's tweets are to be considered official statements made by the President of the United States. Today, the President ambiguously indicated that one of his chief political rivals should be arrested for treason. That's an absolute abuse of the office and power of the Presidency. You cannot argue that Trump was not serious or it wasn't a statement of policy. Trump has repeatedly made policy announcements on Twitter, made extremely important personnel changes and nominations via Twitter, and announced military strikes, treaties, and major policy actions all via tweet. How is the Department of Justice or various federal law enforcement agencies supposed to know whether or not Trump's tweet is a direct order or if it's a command to open an investigation or shift resources and policy? In fact, DOJ and the various federal law enforcement agencies will be in violation of their duties and responsibilities if they don't (assuming they already haven't) verified with the White House whether or not the President is ordering them to investigate Adam Schiff for treason.

I don't care for Adam Schiff at all, but his foolish parody was in no way treason or any other form of criminal conduct. But if Trump indicates he thinks Schiff is deserving of arrest, how can the federal government not act at the behest of the President?
 
People talking bad =/= treason. What Schiff has done makes him undeniably discredited though.

Also, the oath of office is to uphold the constitution and “preserve, protect, and defend” the U.S. How is inciting civil unrest fulfilling his constitutional duty? Is he not derelict in his duty to protect the U.S.?
 
Matt said:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/2...rement-of-first-hand-whistleblower-knowledge/
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Again, this has been repeatedly debunked and disproven by multiple disparate sources. Including an attorney who writes at the Federalist completed disputing his own outlet's work.

But since you insist, I'll provide direct evidence that shows Sean Davis is intentionally misleading people because he knows none of his audience will actually go and look at both documents.

Here are two screenshots. One from the current revision and one from the version that immediately preceded the current version.

20762077


Top version is the current version that Sean Davis claims "was changed to allow secondhand information." The other version is the EXACT SAME version that Sean Davis made his screenshot from. But, instead of making a screenshot of the exact same question and area as any logical or sensible person would do, he instead made a screenshot of a completely different part of the document. He even chose a part that isn't actually part of the whistleblower form itself, and that instead is a discussion of the ICIG's guidelines for determining whether or not a concern is credible. In doing so, Davis completely omitted that the ICIG stated in his original letter to the DNI that he already possesses direct corroborating evidence that proves the whistleblower complaint is credible.

As you can see, both forms allow for a whistleblower to include secondhand information that they were given by other parties. But, somehow, Sean Davis didn't make a screenshot of that. Even though it is an apples to apples comparison of the virtually identical question of: "I know about the information I am disclosing here [because]..." Instead, he skipped that part of the very document he claims proves his case, and instead provides a tight and context-less screenshot of an entirely unrelated part of the document.

You can continue to claim that the document was changed to "allow secondhand info" but you're simply repeating an outright lie. Both forms ask virtually the exact same question, and both provide an option for someone to make a complaint based solely off of supposed "secondhand" knowledge.

The section that Sean Davis misleadingly quoted is a discussion of what the ICIG requires to forward the complaint on to the DNI. And, as I explained above, the ICIG stated in his letter to the DNI that he had obtained firsthand corroborating evidence, and because of that he deemed the complaint credible and forwarded it to the DNI.

If this is Trump's entire defense then he's screwed.

I await your retraction, Matt. I'm sure that you'll do so considering I provided direct and irrefutable evidence from the very documents in question. You were mislead because you wanted to believe something was true. How do you think the Federalist gets clicks and gets those sweet ad dollars???
 
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