Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[Matt]

Nor more than Trump is the blame for every single evil the MSM cries out. I believe Obama added fuel to the fire of cry-wolf racism in subtle ways throughout his Presidency. Yes, there was injustice for the black community but he could have discouraged the riots and hate for all law enforcement.
I’d never seen the nation so racially divided after he left office!

Remember this quote: "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon"!

 

[gangstonc]

McConnell said the dems were attempting to Federalize what are state elections. We don't have one large federal elections. We have fifty separate state run elections and the Congress has appropriated almost $400 million for added security. Also, the mandate to report every contact with a foreign entity is a violation of the First Amendment.

We have an ongoing national security issue with our elections.

We should not be dependent on foreign entities to win elections.

Given the watering down if Election hacking warnings, his not wanting to admit Russia hacked the elections, and his efforts to ease Russian sanctions after they hacked our election, I’d say McConnell does not have genuine intentions.

 

[Matt]

We have an ongoing national security issue with our elections.

We should not be dependent on foreign entities to win elections.

Given the watering down if Election hacking warnings, his not wanting to admit Russia hacked the elections, and his efforts to ease Russian sanctions after they hacked our election, I’d say McConnell does not have genuine intentions.

How about all the illegal aliens helping and voting for democrats ?

 

[gangstonc]

How about all the illegal aliens helping and voting for democrats ?

Show me where it happened.

Either way, it needs to be stopped. There needs to be better ways to check registration status at the polls.

I know Trump complains about it a lot, but he is full of BS: https://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/more-voter-fraud-misinformation-from-trump/

 

[Matt]

Show me where it happened.

Either way, it needs to be stopped. There needs to be better ways to check registration status at the polls.

I know Trump complains about it a lot, but he is full of BS: https://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/more-voter-fraud-misinformation-from-trump/

We all want clean elections. Voter ID is the best way to achieve this.

 

[Matt]

Listen at the 1:29 mark.

 

[Matt]

Finally, people are starting to ask the right questions!

 

[Evan]

Evan, you burst my bubble but you never explained how you came up with this observation...

Wait, so are you saying that white male Baby Boomers as a group DO possess some kind of special ability to discern or define racism?

 

[Matt]

Wait, so are you saying that white male Baby Boomers as a group DO possess some kind of special ability to discern or define racism?

Are you suggesting they do not or cannot discern or define racism ?

 

[Kory]

I think my original point is still accurate. Look at Baltimore and the attention it's getting this week. Perfect example. And you can go around the country and point to many communities that have been under democrat control for 40-50 years and you have seen a collapse in civil society, law and order and economic progress.

After Freddie gray Obama gave Baltimore 1.8 billion dollars to help clean up and restore some communities. Where'd it go ? Elijah Cummings wife is under several ethics complaints if my memory serves me.

The amount of fraud after a disaster, whether man-made or natural, is unreal and a crying shame. At one point after Hurricane Katrina, FEMA was issuing more "Road Home" grants (which is a grant to homeowners in addition to insurance) than there were homes in more than 20% of neighborhoods in New Orleans. Add on top of that dozens and dozens of local and state officials complicit (most have long pleaded guilty and have been sentenced) in emergency funds fraud. In one case, we had a sheriff of a town claiming whole fleets of vehicles were damaged during the storm...some of the vehicles didn't even exist.

It doesn't shock me if public officials were embezzling government recovery and investment funds or private citizens abusing a system set up to help. Actually, it would shock me if they couldn't find a single case of fraud. As sad as that may sound.

 

[skelly]

From subsidies to education grants to disaster aide to ebt if they’re handing out money there’s going to be cases of fraud

 

[gangstonc]

Are you suggesting they do not or cannot discern or define racism ?

Note his use of the word “special”

 

[KoD]

Sanders vs Warren vs Delaney vs O'Rourke vs 20 seconds time is up, next!

 

[Evan]

Note his use of the word “special”

Exactly. That's why I'm extremely confused that anyone is questioning that claim. I don't think any *group* as a whole possesses some kind of special or unique ability to define or discern racism. I believe it varies significantly on an individual basis, and it has a lot to do with one's background, experience, and a host of other factors.

How many times have we seen someone say or do something OBVIOUSLY racist in public yet argue repeatedly that what they said or did "had nothing to do with race." And if matters not one bit if the person is white, black, Hispanic, Asian, or purple. We've all seen situations like that. It's like some of the BLM people who said that they "hate white people" but can't be racist because they're black. Or, white supremacists who say they have "No problem with black people as long as they're in Africa. We're not racists -- we just think people should stick to their own kind." I think some of those people genuinely believe their own BS.

Again, I'm honestly baffled that my quote there is seen as controversial.

As I said earlier in my post, I do think someone's perspective of race is often based on multiple variables and factors. Some of those variables include geography (where someone was born, grew up, and lives) as well as age. There quite a few additional variables, and I'm not suggesting that geography and age are the most important variables, nor am I saying those variables predestine someone to a certain perspective.

I've mentioned this before, but someone whose formative years were in the 1950's to mid 1980's likely experienced an America quite different than the people people who grew up before and after them. The United States' foreign born population as a percentage of total population has been 8% or higher every decade since 1850 except for 1950, 1960, 1970, and 1980. I'm fact, the percentage was double digits from 1850 - 1930s, and then went back to double digits sometime in the late 1990s to 2000.

Census Data showing % of foreign born population

Now, we're at almost 14% as of our population as foreign born. 2017 showed that 13.7% of the US population is foreign born and continues to increase.

Additionally, the country of origin of our foreign born population is quite different today than it was 50 years ago or 100 years ago.

It's hard to argue that doesn't have an impact on attitudes and perceptions. Someone who was born in 1990 likely grew up around a lot more immigrants, and those immigrants were much much much more likely to be Latin-American or Asian than than European. That's a comparatively very different experience than the one someone might have experienced that was born in 1950 or 1960.

Obviously, someone who grew up in a border area of Texas in 1960 would've had a somewhat similar experience as someone born in 1990 in an area where the vast majority of immigrants were from Mexico, so it's definitely not a hard rule.

The point is, age, geography, social class, and even things like religion influence people's attitudes on matters of race, immigration, and culture. Catholics, for instance, usually spent more time around certain immigrant groups than their Protestant brethren. Even now that may hold true in some areas as a lot of Hispanics tend to be Catholic and attend Catholic churches.

None of this is meant to imply that being born in a certain place or time means that someone is racist or a bigot. Please don't make the mistake that many "woke" liberals make and assume that one's background is destiny. Or, that someone is unable to inherently see and treat people as equal unless they're a minority or a woke progressive. Simply not the case. But, to think that the variables I mentioned don't have an influence on people's attitudes and perspectives is just as wrong.

You can see the influence of these things on a fairly regular basis. It's why some people in rural areas that didn't have much immigration until the past 20-30 years sometimes see immigrants as "invaders" while some young people in cities think those in the rural areas are just a bunch of racists. Neither group seems to understand the perspective of the other group, nor do they seem to be aware of why their perspectives are so different.

Americans have stopped talking to each other or attempting to understand why people have different opinions and perspectives. It's one of the reasons I think populist/nationalist politicians like Trump and "woke progressive" Democrats are so toxic for this country. Instead of trying to bridge those gaps, they're pandering to one side or the other, and at the same time are demonizing the other side as unapproachable reprobates. The end result is that people retreat into their balkanized echo chambers instead of trying to find common ground.

 

[Evan]

I was honestly confused by your comment to Matt because I didn't understand it. That's why I questioned it. Thank you for the clarification. I hated even questioning it, but to be totally honest, I feel like you hate Trump on such a visceral level that sometimes you paint with a broad brush. At least, that's how it comes across to me at times. We discussed Evangelicals not too long ago and we came to an understanding. I don't think we are disagreeing so much as we are just misreading each other.

No, I'm not kind of anti-Trump. I'm firmly anti-Trump. I'm just not in a perpetual state of shock and pissed off. He is exactly who I said he was. And he hasn't exactly been hiding his crazy. He showed himself during the Primaries to be exactly who he is today. He's not exactly hiding the ball here. I'm sure if someone was to dig through the archives and pulled up my old posts, they would find I predicted everything you just replied to me with. So I can't really disagree with anything you said. I predicted all these things would happen. So, none of these shock nor surprises me. I'm just over here in my corner of the world going... yeah so that's happened. But here's the thing. He's not a permanent fixture. He'll either be here for another term or he won't. Yes, I know he'll leave repercussions. I said that, too. But so does Congress. And we have to deal with them for a lot longer. As for race relations. Obama started the race bating and set us back decades. I'll argue that point with anyone. Trump is stepping in and taking the reigns as far as I'm concerned. Am I mad about it? Of course I am! But let's just not pretend this mess started in 2016. It didn't. That's all I'm saying.

My focus is on Trump, that's correct. We're on a forum primarily made up of up people from Alabama or the Southeast. Even if people don't support or like Trump, they're going to be surrounded by people who do. Thus, my primary audience is more or less people that aren't open to the "woke progressivism" that I mentioned in my earlier post. Although I do still discuss some of that, as I have with Kavanaugh and the Covington kids, the larger battle here is about Trump's populist/nationalist ideology and the inability of the GOP to oppose it.

As to Obama, I definitely don't think he started race-baiting and racial pandering. It's been present in this country for a long time. The southern strategy was a real thing, and George Wallace and others showed how susceptible a lot of people are to race-baited populism. I don't disagree that Obama accelerated the problem. It's just that I find he's a very milquetoast version of today's woke progressives.

In fact, as KoD already pointed out, the PC/racial justice attitude had already started to take over the Democratic Party before Obama's nomination. I think it's more accurate to say he took advantage of it than it is to say he led that movement or started it. I think it's notable that the largest leftward shift occurred AFTER Obama left office. Believe it or not, but I really do think Democrats have moved more to the left since 2016 than they did during Obama's two terms.

Look at Obamacare. Most of the Democrats running for President are pushing Medicare for all. Obama certainly could've tried that but he didn't. Just as he could've pushed for gay marriage but he literally opposed it in his first campaign and then supposedly "evolved." You might say he was just playing politics and always supported gay marriage, and would've supported Medicare for all if he thought it was achievable. But that actually confirms what I said in the paragraph about -- Obama took advantage of the rapidly changing attitudes -- he didn't lead them.

More to the point, in addition to my belief Obama was merely a milquetoast representation of what currently ails the Democrats, he's no longer the party leader. He's rarely on the national stage. And, I don't know if you know about this or not, but a LOT of progressives and leftist Democrats strongly dislike Obama, and they disliked him even when he was President. They don't think he's one of them. They don't think he even tried to achieve the policies and things they wanted -- including racial justice and other race-based things. Now, those people probably only make up 20-35% of the Democratic Party, but it's notable because of how they view Obama.

Do you think 20-35% of far-right Republicans think Trump isn't going far enough on the things they want? I sure don't. I think they're too busy fighting his battles and making excuses for him. They've abandoned what they claimed to support and are now firmly enmeshed in his cult of personality. Sure, I think a number of principled Conservatives have left the party or don't support Trump (at least not unconditionally), but I don't think they're the far right of the party or even close to 20-35%.

 

[Matt]

The amount of fraud after a disaster, whether man-made or natural, is unreal and a crying shame. At one point after Hurricane Katrina, FEMA was issuing more "Road Home" grants (which is a grant to homeowners in addition to insurance) than there were homes in more than 20% of neighborhoods in New Orleans. Add on top of that dozens and dozens of local and state officials complicit (most have long pleaded guilty and have been sentenced) in emergency funds fraud. In one case, we had a sheriff of a town claiming whole fleets of vehicles were damaged during the storm...some of the vehicles didn't even exist.

It doesn't shock me if public officials were embezzling government recovery and investment funds or private citizens abusing a system set up to help. Actually, it would shock me if they couldn't find a single case of fraud. As sad as that may sound.

I think you just proved my original point!

 

[gangstonc]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEW: Two former top staffers to Mitch McConnell have lobbied Congress and Treasury on the development of a new Kentucky mill backed by Russian aluminum giant Rusal. McConnell&#39;s office won&#39;t say whether he&#39;s been lobbied by them directly.<br>w/<a href="https://twitter.com/theodoricmeyer?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@theodoricmeyer</a> <a href="https://t.co/ENSRyXClqP">https://t.co/ENSRyXClqP</a></p>&mdash; Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) <a href="">July 31, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Matt]

James, you should not have!


https://truepundit.com/fbi-visited-james-comeys-house-recovered-classified-fbi-files/

 

[Arcadia]

My focus is on Trump, that's correct. We're on a forum primarily made up of up people from Alabama or the Southeast. Even if people don't support or like Trump, they're going to be surrounded by people who do. Thus, my primary audience is more or less people that aren't open to the "woke progressivism" that I mentioned in my earlier post. Although I do still discuss some of that, as I have with Kavanaugh and the Covington kids, the larger battle here is about Trump's populist/nationalist ideology and the inability of the GOP to oppose it.

As to Obama, I definitely don't think he started race-baiting and racial pandering. It's been present in this country for a long time. The southern strategy was a real thing, and George Wallace and others showed how susceptible a lot of people are to race-baited populism. I don't disagree that Obama accelerated the problem. It's just that I find he's a very milquetoast version of today's woke progressives.

In fact, as KoD already pointed out, the PC/racial justice attitude had already started to take over the Democratic Party before Obama's nomination. I think it's more accurate to say he took advantage of it than it is to say he led that movement or started it. I think it's notable that the largest leftward shift occurred AFTER Obama left office. Believe it or not, but I really do think Democrats have moved more to the left since 2016 than they did during Obama's two terms.

Look at Obamacare. Most of the Democrats running for President are pushing Medicare for all. Obama certainly could've tried that but he didn't. Just as he could've pushed for gay marriage but he literally opposed it in his first campaign and then supposedly "evolved." You might say he was just playing politics and always supported gay marriage, and would've supported Medicare for all if he thought it was achievable. But that actually confirms what I said in the paragraph about -- Obama took advantage of the rapidly changing attitudes -- he didn't lead them.

More to the point, in addition to my belief Obama was merely a milquetoast representation of what currently ails the Democrats, he's no longer the party leader. He's rarely on the national stage. And, I don't know if you know about this or not, but a LOT of progressives and leftist Democrats strongly dislike Obama, and they disliked him even when he was President. They don't think he's one of them. They don't think he even tried to achieve the policies and things they wanted -- including racial justice and other race-based things. Now, those people probably only make up 20-35% of the Democratic Party, but it's notable because of how they view Obama.

Do you think 20-35% of far-right Republicans think Trump isn't going far enough on the things they want? I sure don't. I think they're too busy fighting his battles and making excuses for him. They've abandoned what they claimed to support and are now firmly enmeshed in his cult of personality. Sure, I think a number of principled Conservatives have left the party or don't support Trump (at least not unconditionally), but I don't think they're the far right of the party or even close to 20-35%.

"Started" was a poor word choice. We'll use your word...accelerated. He put his foot to the pedal and said GO! I remember his term quite vividly. And I have spoken in depth about the way he stoked racial tension and divide in this country. I don't think I need to rehash any of that with you unless you truly think I need to. I do know that Obama has fallen off the throne and that leftists were pissed Obama didn't elevate them...their policies...and their brand of wokeness to a more permanent staple at the head of the table. I think that is what so many leftists struggled with. They expected to be dominating political theatre. It didn't work out that way. Obama didn't bring the goods they were promised. That was made evident based on all the meltdowns that happened after the 2016 elections. How could this be happening?? How did we go from 'Obama the Second Coming' to Donald Trump!?!? And the fact that people are actually saying Obama was moderate now in terms of policies... that just shows you how far off the cliff the Democrat party has gone. His methods were more subtle and deliberately so. He knew you can't fundamentally change a country overnight. You have to ease people into it...baby steps. You can't abolish private healthcare! Discussing doing such a thing during his term was unthinkable. So, Obamacare it was. And it was supposed to be EVERYTHING we needed. If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. Lies. All of it...lies. But see where it led? To the here and now. This wasn't by accident. Now, it's acceptable to get on stage and admit you want to abolish private health insurance because 'only the government can fix this mess'. Basically, design "a cure" meant to dismantle a system that wasn't broken, then when it fails to meet all the promises you promised then we get to creep more and more to that medicare for all talk leftists wanted all along. Obama may seem milquetoast to you. To me he's a very calculating man. His fingerprints are everywhere. And he is the direct reason we have Donald J Trump.

 

[gangstonc]

Mitch McConnell's net worth in 2005: $2.962 mil
Mitch McConnell's net worth in 2015: 23.965 mil

It doesn't matter that he is a republican. Democrats are doing it too. These people are not serving us, but rather their own interests.