Severe WX December 10 & 11, 2021 Severe Threat

[Shakespeare 2016]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but there was an additional EF4 damage point from the first long-tracker added to the DAT by MEG. The structure was a bait & tackle shop that was slabbed near Reelfoot Lake.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that at least a little bit more than complete destruction of the entire building?

 

[Austin Dawg]

I don't know a whole lot about assessing tornado damage but I know what Smithville and and other towns that have been struck by an F5 look like after they were hit. Homes and buildings completely cleared away... trees stripped down to the ground... trenches dug in the ground. I could go on and on but after I heard none of these were rated F5's and now hearing that they have been downgraded from an F4 to an F3 brings a timely image to my mind over and over and over again.

 

[CheeselandSkies]

Maybe we should switch to the TORRO scale...

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[TH2002]

Maybe we should switch to the TORRO scale...

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Nah let's just go back to the original Fujita scale. Like the EF scale the TORRO scale puts too much emphasis on homes of "superior construction".

 

[CheeselandSkies]

Nah let's just go back to the original Fujita scale. Like the EF scale the TORRO scale puts too much emphasis on homes of "superior construction".

Well, the original scale had its own issues, especially with the earlier ratings that were retroactively applied and again with "La Plata syndrome." You'd think there could be some sort of happy medium between "college students rating tornadoes by poring over newspaper photos/accounts" and this mess, but here we are.

 

[TH2002]

Well, the original scale had its own issues, especially with the earlier ratings that were retroactively applied and again with "La Plata syndrome." You'd think there could be some sort of happy medium between "college students rating tornadoes by poring over newspaper photos/accounts" and this mess, but here we are.

If I were Ted Fujita I would be rolling in my grave after seeing what the scale named after me has become.

 

[pohnpei]

Before and after view of an EF4 house near Hayti MO. Some shurbs nearby completely
annihilated. House was clearly not well built.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

CAP imagery for Mayfield.
http://fema-cap-imagery.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/Images/9216/618470/

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

View of that home in Carbondale. Looks like it was leveled but not slabbed.

 

[TH2002]

View of that home in Carbondale. Looks like it was leveled but not slabbed.

I guess that question is finally answered and upon reanalysis of the satellite imagery, the slab looks almost "too clean" and all of the debris is in neat piles next to the foundation.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

Bremen:

 

[buckeye05]

Bremen:

Is the slab in the first photo a house foundation? If so, that could potentially be a solid EF5 candidate. I don’t recall seeing any photos or mention of it from the official survey if it was indeed a home.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

Is the slab in the first photo a house foundation? If so, that could potentially be a solid EF5 candidate. I don’t recall seeing any photos or mention of it from the official survey if it was indeed a home.

That's the EF4 190 home in Bremen.

 

[buckeye05]

Actually, that might be the one that had its concrete flooring blown away. Never mind if that’s the case.

Edit: beat me to it

 

[TH2002]

Has this slab in Bremen been mentioned anywhere? (visible at bottom)

 

[pohnpei]

Bremen:

After looking at map, the order of these pics from West to East was 2314.
The before view of the first EF4 point of this series which was in bottom pic2.(not direct hit, right side of the funnel) The black SUV in front of the house likely ended up mangled in upper side of pic2.

I'm still wondering whether the yellow lines right side of the third pic was scouring because It didn't look like other clearly legitimate scouring but the before map also didn't look like this as well.
Up close view of this place
Vehicles and other debris piled into the forest.


before

Till this day I'm still stunned by the fact that this tornado can manage to intensify into EF5 category near 5Z in December in Kentucky after maintaining over 2 hours already. Apparently either of these aspects have no similar case. It was on its own class talking about rarity.

 

[pohnpei]

View of that home in Carbondale. Looks like it was leveled but not slabbed.

It was still a strong candidate for high EF4 rating at least. I hope they didn't simply missed It because all the other slabs along this road was labeled and most of them were 165mph. There were still tons of houses not labeled along the path btw.

 

[pohnpei]

Has this slab in Bremen been mentioned anywhere? (visible at bottom)
View attachment 11301

All rated EF3 iirc.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

After looking at map, the order of these pics from West to East was 2314.
The before view of the first EF4 point of this series which was in bottom pic2.(not direct hit, right side of the funnel) The black SUV in front of the house likely ended up mangled in upper side of pic2.
View attachment 11311
I'm still wondering whether the yellow lines right side of the third pic was scouring because It didn't look like other clearly legitimate scouring but the before map also didn't look like this as well.
Up close view of this place
Vehicles and other debris piled into the forest.
View attachment 11306
View attachment 11309
before
View attachment 11313
Till this day I'm still stunned by the fact that this tornado can manage to intensify into EF5 category near 5Z in December in Kentucky after maintaining over 2 hours already. Apparently either of these aspects have no similar case. It was on its own class talking about rarity.

It's not scouring, it's wind-rowed hay.

 

[Sawmaster]

Why does this house STILL have no DI? Did they just forget it existed?
View attachment 11266

And how the [bleep] is this supposed to be EF4 damage? Unless the rest of the structure was not bolted to the foundation, this is clearly EF5 damage.
View attachment 11267
View attachment 11268

The bottom pic shows both end-nailed studs and the anchor-bolting retrofitted with expanding bolts; not poured-in-place standard anchor bolts. Given these the max rating available would be EF-4.

But what really sucks is that even though these anchor bolts held, if the rest of the structure was up to EF-5 DI's they would almost certainly still rate EF-4 because of the type of anchor bolt used not being "correct" even though these clearly held and did the job adequately. Therein lies the problems of using engineers for damage surveys. I don't know how many of you have had to deal with these people directly but in my 45 years of construction work I've crossed paths with them too many times. And while I don't like to categorize people as there's always exceptions, I have never met an engineer who didn't have a hugely-inflated ego with a side-order of "God complex" thrown in. More than a few times I've shown them obvious errors in their designs and ways to easily do things better but they won't accept it. Yes we do need engineers involved with damage surveys; just not in the capacity and with the authority of how they're being used now. Because of this we're getting incorrect answers to our questions and until we change the approach that will continue.

Phil