Significant Tornado Events

[speedbump305]

if i had to guess the width of the tornado, i’d definitely say it was either 3/4 a mile wide or 1 mile wide. the satellite image does show a quite large ground path. What i really want to know is how it swept away steel reinforced concrete buildings and plus all the other extraordinary claims. Like other tornadoes, the damage might’ve been exaggerated but who knows

 

[A Guy]

@Juliett Bravo Kilo @Marshal79344 did you see the Chernokulsky and Sikhov paper that I linked to http://gis.psu.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Chernokulsky_Shikhov_Paper.pdf that uses LandSat? It does confirm that there was no Kostroma tornado - the yellow is the actual tracks they found.



@Marshal79344 you have a good point about the width of the visible funnel being less that the width of the damage path. Depending on the environment it can be dramatically less. There's a paper Atkins et al. comparing radar, visual and damage observations of the Moore tornado https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/95/10/bams-d-14-00033.1.xml and it shows that when it was at a surveyed width of 1.74 km the base of the condensation funnel was only 267 metres wide, which in this case roughly corresponded to the obvious core area of intense damage, though supposedly that isn't always the case. The overall width corresponds to the massive debris cloud generated by being in an urban area.



An interesting takeaway is that when some storm chaser proclaims that a tornado is x width, unless they have magic damage survey glasses what they're looking at is almost certainly much narrower than that.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

if i had to guess the width of the tornado, i’d definitely say it was either 3/4 a mile wide or 1 mile wide. the satellite image does show a quite large ground path. What i really want to know is how it swept away steel reinforced concrete buildings and plus all the other extraordinary claims. Like other tornadoes, the damage might’ve been exaggerated but who knows

Those claims are completely false. There is no evidence of slabbed steel reinforced concrete homes and it might have not even produced F5 damage.

 

[buckeye05]

Ivanovo is one of the best examples of why it’s dubious to try to rank the intensity of a tornado based on text-only descriptions of the damage. I once considered it to be one of the most violent of all time, but as damage was photos started to emerge, they told a different story.

Xenia, Plainfield, and Goessel also had “legendary” status at one point, but more modern analysis of the damage showed that there was nothing all that remarkable about them intensity wise.

Good quality photos and some context are really the only ways to get a good grasp on what happened without being there.

 

[speedbump305]

Those claims are completely false. There is no evidence of slabbed steel reinforced concrete homes and it might have not even produced F5 damage.

That’s what i think too. it’s for sure false and i’ve seen the damage too. all i saw was F4 damage, the homes didn’t look to well built. considering the crane, i don’t think it lifted a crane, but it could have toppled it over

 

[speedbump305]

Ivanovo is one of the best examples of why it’s dubious to try to rank the intensity of a tornado based on text-only descriptions of the damage. I once considered it to be one of the most violent of all time, but as damage was photos started to emerge, they told a different story.

Xenia, Plainfield, and Goessel also had “legendary” status at one point, but more modern analysis of the damage showed that there was nothing all that remarkable about them intensity wise.

Good qu photos and some context are really the only ways to get a good grasp on what happened without being there.

Plainfield and Goessel are definitely frustrating. If i remember, i’ve read articles from Tornado Talk, NWS, and even i went further to wikipedia and it said damage near the town of Goessel was “ Extreme F5 “ it’s just not true. all i really see is F4 damage. Plainfield needs to be downgraded if it was allowed. Corn damage is not useful, corn is already loose to begin with.

 

[buckeye05]

Honestly, I think most or all of those reports are just rumours—false ones, no less. There are very few, if any, direct citations in which Dr. Fujita explicitly laid claims to a particular event being “so-and-so” intense. Even his conversations with Thomas P. Grazulis on this point are ambiguous at best and cannot be used as “proof,” much less inference. No one can really identify the “most intense” tornadoes of all time with any degree of certainty or knowledge, given that reliable records only go back a few decades at most. Probably many tornadoes have been even more intense than Smithville or Jarrell but were relatively undocumented or failed to impact representative DIs. As I know now most DIs really shouldn’t be used as DIs to determine extremely intense events, given that much weaker tornadoes can cause comparable damage to corn, vehicles, some soils, steel-and-concrete rebar, and so on. We can only conclude that Smithville and Jarrell are the most intense known within our comparatively brief timescale of record.

I actually agree with everything you said here. I’ve said it before, but while Fujita’s contributions are very important, all of his statements shouldn’t be taken as unquestionably true. In addition there have been several events that earned an incredibly violent reputation (Xenia, Smithfield, Plainfield, and Guin) based entirely on “Dr. Fujita said” heresy rather than photographic proof.

(With that said, photos from Guin suggest that it was indeed extremely violent)

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

Ivanovo is one of the best examples of why it’s dubious to try to rank the intensity of a tornado based on text-only descriptions of the damage. I once considered it to be one of the most violent of all time, but as damage was photos started to emerge, they told a different story.

Xenia, Plainfield, and Goessel also had “legendary” status at one point, but more modern analysis of the damage showed that there was nothing all that remarkable about them intensity wise.

Good quality photos and some context are really the only ways to get a good grasp on what happened without being there.

I'm not sure if those rumors from Ivanovo were even originated from a primary source and were just Internet-generated rumors.

 

[speedbump305]

I actually agree with everything you said here. I’ve said it before, but while Fujita’s contributions are very important, all of his statements shouldn’t be taken as unquestionably true. In addition there have been several events that earned an incredibly violent reputation (Xenia, Smithfield, Plainfield, and Guin) based entirely on “Dr. Fujita said” heresy rather than photographic proof.

(With that said, photos from Guin suggest that it was indeed extremely violent)

Guin and Brandenburg we’re definitely more violent than Xenia. Brandenburg and Guin would still be rated EF5 based on today’s standards

I'm beginning to wonder if speedbump305 is a sock puppet for Casuarina Head.

No i don’t believe ivanovo swept away steel reinforced concrete structures. it’s not true. and idek who that is lolllll

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

So, got some photos and videos of the 1984 Soviet Union Tornado outbreak. You'll likely need your browser to translate many of these:

1. A YouTube video:


2.

An imgur collection:

3. Some articles on it:

A.http://ivgazeta.ru/read/11252
B. https://fishki.net/2304478-ivanovskij-smerch-9-ijunja-1984-goda-chto-jeto-bylo.html
C. http://nevsedoma.com.ua/index.php?newsid=322749
D. https://sheremetyevo-50.livejournal.com/2801.html

4. A scientific article on the event:
http://meteocenter.net/meteolib/tornado1984.htm

The majority of photographs from this thing didn't seem any more intense than F3, but there were a few that caught my eye, I'll discuss them below.

This is the only color photo I've found from this event, in the imgur album. I wonder if it's genuine; if it is, it's some pretty violent tree damage for outside of North America.



The crane that was thrown/toppled down in reports. Not sure what to make of this:



The sense of scale here is pretty impressive. While I'm sure the buildings weren't that well-constructed the area does appear pretty hard hit.



In this photograph there appears to be pretty intense damage in the background. Again, not entirely sure.



Not exactly impressive, but the first photograph of automobile damage from this outbreak I've been able to find. Appears to be a Soviet-era bus for public transport. Just wanted to include it.

 

[warneagle]

The 1984 Soviet outbreak is so interesting to me. I studied Russian/Soviet history in college, so it's a place where my interests overlap. Unfortunately, I don't speak the language very well, so I haven't been able to do much research on it.

It's just such an interesting case because it's the only violent outbreak on record in the USSR. I know some of that is probably down to lack of records and tornadoes going undetected/unrated because it's a sparsely populated country, and it's no coincidence that the only violent outbreak occurred in a heavily urbanized part of the country, but it's still a very unique event. Aside from Poland, Eastern Europe isn't really known for violent tornadoes in general.

 

[TH2002]

So, got some photos and videos of the 1984 Soviet Union Tornado outbreak. You'll likely need your browser to translate many of these:

1. A YouTube video:


2.

An imgur collection:

3. Some articles on it:

A.http://ivgazeta.ru/read/11252
B. https://fishki.net/2304478-ivanovskij-smerch-9-ijunja-1984-goda-chto-jeto-bylo.html
C. http://nevsedoma.com.ua/index.php?newsid=322749
D. https://sheremetyevo-50.livejournal.com/2801.html

4. A scientific article on the event:
http://meteocenter.net/meteolib/tornado1984.htm

The majority of photographs from this thing didn't seem any more intense than F3, but there were a few that caught my eye, I'll discuss them below.

This is the only color photo I've found from this event, in the imgur album. I wonder if it's genuine; if it is, it's some pretty violent tree damage for outside of North America.

View attachment 6760

The crane that was thrown/toppled down in reports. Not sure what to make of this:

View attachment 6761

The sense of scale here is pretty impressive. While I'm sure the buildings weren't that well-constructed the area does appear pretty hard hit.

View attachment 6762

In this photograph there appears to be pretty intense damage in the background. Again, not entirely sure.

View attachment 6764

Not exactly impressive, but the first photograph of automobile damage from this outbreak I've been able to find. Appears to be a Soviet-era bus for public transport. Just wanted to include it.

View attachment 6763

The third and fourth photos are from the site of a dacha village. Based on Russian-language articles and available photos the tornado was likely at peak intensity in that area. Homes reportedly "flew like toys" in that area, though I have no information on construction quality. If at least some of the homes were well-constructed, a low F5 rating may be appropriate.

Do note that the photos in the LiveJournal article are NOT the Ivanovo tornado, rather the F1 that struck Sheremetyevo.

 

[TH2002]

I have several ground photos of the Golden Ridge Subdivision, but they just show a bunch of leveled and swept away block foundation homes. Nothing particularly impressive.

So the Fargo tornado probably wouldn't receieve an EF5 rating today. EF3's can sweep away block foundation homes.

 

[speedbump305]

I have several ground photos of the Golden Ridge Subdivision, but they just show a bunch of leveled and swept away block foundation homes. Nothing particularly impressive.

Buckeye i have a question and i’m sorry if it’s unesscary, but has there ever been a tornado that has destroyed block foundations?

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

The third and fourth photos are from the site of a dacha village. Based on Russian-language articles and available photos the tornado was likely at peak intensity in that area. Homes reportedly "flew like toys" in that area, though I have no information on construction quality. If at least some of the homes were well-constructed, a low F5 rating may be appropriate.

Do note that the photos in the LiveJournal article are NOT the Ivanovo tornado, rather the F1 that struck Sheremetyevo.

Yes, I know it's from the F1 that struck the airport, I should have mentioned that. I was trying to find photographs of as many tornadoes as possible from the outbreak. Sadly I haven't been able to find any from Kostroma.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

Buckeye i have a question and i’m sorry if it’s unesscary, but has there ever been a tornado that has destroyed block foundations?

Yes tornadoes have destroyed block foundations before.

 

[TH2002]

Yes, I know it's from the F1 that struck the airport, I should have mentioned that. I was trying to find photographs of as many tornadoes as possible from the outbreak. Sadly I haven't been able to find any from Kostroma.

I found a collection of Kostroma damage pics a while back, I'll post them once I find it again.

Update: Found them
Source specifically labels these as Kostroma damage pics (Source: КОСТРОМА | История Костромы / Kostroma | History of Kostroma at skyscrapercity.com)

 

[speedbump305]

I found a collection of Kostroma damage pics a while back, I'll post them once I find it again.

Update: Found them
Source specifically labels these as Kostroma damage pics (Source: КОСТРОМА | История Костромы / Kostroma | History of Kostroma at skyscrapercity.com)

It seems like most of the damage was done next to a river or something else. thanks for those pics!

 

[locomusic01]

So, some (tentatively) good news! I've been trying forever to find more photos of the Tennessee tornadoes on 4/5/36 and I think I've finally managed to track some down. They're from newspaper archives and I'm told there are 15 in all - not sure precisely where they were taken yet but I should be getting the contact sheet in the next few days. I'm reasonably confident at least a few of them will be from the area where I believe the most intense damage occurred. Pretty excited about that.

In other news, I mentioned the "other" tornadoes from the 3/18/25 Tri-State outbreak a few days ago but I don't think I ever posted the rest of the photos I've got. Not great quality, but beggars can't be choosers.

This was the site of a fairly large, upscale-ish home near Elizabeth, KY, a bit south of Louisville. The home, as you can see, was leveled and debris was scattered over a very broad area. Trees were reportedly stripped and one man was killed when he was thrown nearly half a mile.

Nearby, this home basically disappeared. Clearly it was not well-built, but it's still notable that most of the debris was swept a considerable distance away.

A barn, which was either directly adjacent or very close to the home above, was also destroyed and partially swept away. A number of cows were killed, including one that was reportedly found almost a mile away & partially skinned. Not sure how they could tell it was a cow from this particular farm, but there you go.

This photo is from somewhere north of Gallatin, TN. Couldn't find much context, but I suppose it sort of speaks for itself anyway.

And this is from the same tornado, specifically on the Alison property where nine people were killed. I had a higher quality photo from this area on my blog, but this is notable because it was reported that the ground was "stripped of grass" and basically transformed into a muddy bog. It's hard to tell, but the ground here certainly seems to fit that description.

 

[speedbump305]

So, some (tentatively) good news! I've been trying forever to find more photos of the Tennessee tornadoes on 4/5/36 and I think I've finally managed to track some down. They're from newspaper archives and I'm told there are 15 in all - not sure precisely where they were taken yet but I should be getting the contact sheet in the next few days. I'm reasonably confident at least a few of them will be from the area where I believe the most intense damage occurred. Pretty excited about that.

In other news, I mentioned the "other" tornadoes from the 3/18/25 Tri-State outbreak a few days ago but I don't think I ever posted the rest of the photos I've got. Not great quality, but beggars can't be choosers.

This was the site of a fairly large, upscale-ish home near Elizabeth, KY, a bit south of Louisville. The home, as you can see, was leveled and debris was scattered over a very broad area. Trees were reportedly stripped and one man was killed when he was thrown nearly half a mile.

Nearby, this home basically disappeared. Clearly it was not well-built, but it's still notable that most of the debris was swept a considerable distance away.

A barn, which was either directly adjacent or very close to the home above, was also destroyed and partially swept away. A number of cows were killed, including one that was reportedly found almost a mile away & partially skinned. Not sure how they could tell it was a cow from this particular farm, but there you go.

This photo is from somewhere north of Gallatin, TN. Couldn't find much context, but I suppose it sort of speaks for itself anyway.

And this is from the same tornado, specifically on the Alison property where nine people were killed. I had a higher quality photo from this area on my blog, but this is notable because it was reported that the ground was "stripped of grass" and basically transformed into a muddy bog. It's hard to tell, but the ground here certainly seems to fit that description.

Wow! that’s insane! those homes don’t look too well built, but i do get the general idea of how they were swept away with debris razed well away from the foundations. and Holy mackerel, that tree damage in the first image behind the home is pretty intense. Do you mind listing ur resources on where you found these?