Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[Evan]

Are you saying corruption, or potential corruption by the former V.P. and his son should not be investigated ?

Then why hasn't Trump asked China to investigate this? We all know why he hasn't.

 

[Evan]

I don’t think anyone has to worry as to whether or not anything Trump does or his family will be investigated.

If you want to act the allegations about what the Biden’s have been up to are unsubstantiated then please give me a break you’re just like you accuse others of being on the trump side or even if they are skeptical.

Last election (2016) both sides were getting dirt from foreigners. Obviously they’re already at it for 2020.

There are no forum rules against being coy or against me criticizing trump when I want to and/or taking his side when I want to.

Please try to stay off of bridges and and tall buildings when you realize the political dominoes are no where near falling where you hoped.

Was this meant to be a response to me? Because you seem to be responding to things that were never said.

Are you OK?

Speaking of responses, it seems you're unable to respond to what I said earlier. I'll repost it for you.

 

[Evan]

I'm reposting my post from earlier minus the very tiny portion that you seemed to have replied to. For some odd reason you were unable to respond to the rest?

Yeah, you really think that's how people talk in a text convo? Please. I was born at night but it wasn't last night.

Notice how the texts are informal and conversational until Taylor says the quiet part out loud. Then, suddenly, Sondland issues a freaking press release soundbite via text.

Not to mention, when Taylor questions the quid pro quo in another text message Sondland doesn't even try to refute him. He says: "Call me." Totally the actions of an innocent man.

I always respond with PR speak or "Call Me" anytime someone accuses me of participating in a criminal plot to trade arms for help with a domestic political campaign.

You can't be this naive. I refuse to believe it. You know good and well how YOU or ANYONE else would respond if someone made some wild accusation or completely misconstrued something. We'd be shocked. Offended. Incredulous. Our first reaction would be to vehemently dispute what the other person said. We wouldn't suddenly speak as if a PR flack or attorney took over our phone.

The log of messages that was released is beyond damning. If a smoking gun has ever existed in the history of smoking guns then this one is the one emitting the most smoke. Taylor repeatedly pushes back on the plan and Sondland clearly tries to avoid confirming what they had JUST SPOKEN ABOUT on the phone.

But that's all beside the point. There are also messages that EXPLICITLY lay out that they're trading a White House visit and arms in exchange for the President of Ukraine making a specific statement that mentions Burisma and the 2016 election. They even confirm this with the top aide to the President of Ukraine and send him a freaking draft statement specifically mentioning Burisma and the 2016 election.

 

[Evan]

It means that when all the facts come out they probably haven’t all come out. If the public perception and the concrete real results of all this is not what you expect based on you being so sure if what you know then don’t panic and start eating the babies just yet. Hope that helps.

So, I take it we're all just waiting on Q for the big reveal? Any day now Hillary and Bill will be perp-walked. I'm sure of it!

 

[skelly]

So, I take it we're all just waiting on Q for the big reveal? Any day now Hillary and Bill will be perp-walked. I'm sure of it!

Nope. And I never was and never do. So don’t be surprised what happens or doesn’t happen to Trump/Biden.

 

[gangstonc]

Manafort has some key links to this story...

 

[Evan]

I don’t think anyone has to worry as to whether or not anything Trump does or his family will be investigated.

If you want to act the allegations about what the Biden’s have been up to are unsubstantiated then please give me a break you’re just like you accuse others of being on the trump side or even if they are skeptical.

Last election (2016) both sides were getting dirt from foreigners. Obviously they’re already at it for 2020.

There are no forum rules against being coy or against me criticizing trump when I want to and/or taking his side when I want to.

Please try to stay off of bridges and and tall buildings when you realize the political dominoes are no where near falling where you hoped.

Tom Bossert said that is "completely debunked." Do you have a source or evidence backing up your claim that Ukraine was providing dirt to Democrats in 2016?

 

[Matt]

I already addressed this in an earlier post. The offense at hand is that the president withheld money to a foreign country and tried to solicit them into investigating unsubstantiated reports of malfeasance by the former VP and current political rival. Something that the foreign country already investigated. It's an alleged abuse of power. The narrative coming from the Trump shield is that everyone should focus on the Bidens and not the president. Not going to happen, not without real evidence. You can spin it in your head however you want, but it doesn't change any of the facts that have come out.

He did not withhold any money. Where is the concern about Obama launching unwarranted investigations on Trump and his campaign during the 2016 election cycle ?

 

[Matt]

The text messages and "transcripts" show that trump should be impeached. That part is out. The only thing to see with respect to Trump is if it is even worse than we know now.

They do not. Give me a break. Trump ain't going anywhere ? Please impeach him. 2020 will be an even bigger win for trump than I previously believed.

 

[gangstonc]

He did not withhold any money. Where is the concern about Obama launching unwarranted investigations on Trump and his campaign during the 2016 election cycle ?

What are your sources for this? Trump even said he withheld money. It was congressionally appropriated and he withheld it.

 

[gangstonc]

They do not. Give me a break. Trump ain't going anywhere ? Please impeach him. 2020 will be an even bigger win for trump than I previously believed.

Could you please explain how asking for a "favor" (I got that word from the transcript he released) of another country to investigate a political rival is ok?

 

[skelly]

Tom Bossert said that is "completely debunked." Do you have a source or evidence backing up your claim that Ukraine was providing dirt to Democrats in 2016?

I was recalling the British agent and others. The Fusion GPS and or what not. I’m sure you recall. I said foreigners. You said Ukrainian. Funny how you can read for ex. the Wash. Examiner and NBCNews and it’s essentially the same article with same information, one says that Trump is lying about Hunter Biden the other that Trump is on to something and Joe has some explaining to do.
I’m saying do you realize that neither are likely to be prosecuted, impeached or in any way held responsible except for politically?
Maybe some of the fringe American go betweens and some foreign actors get charged in southern district of New York like Hunter’s Chinese connection.

 

[Evan]

I was recalling the British agent and others. The Fusion GPS and or what not. I’m sure you recall. I said foreigners. You said Ukrainian. Funny how you can read for ex. the Wash. Examiner and NBCNews and it’s essentially the same article with same information, one says that Trump is lying about Hunter Biden the other that Trump is on to something and Joe has some explaining to do.
I’m saying do you realize that neither are likely to be prosecuted, impeached or in any way held responsible except for politically?
Maybe some of the fringe American go betweens and some foreign actors get charged in southern district of New York like Hunter’s Chinese connection.

Because there's a massive difference in a campaign accepting foreign assistance, donations, or contributions and paying a campaign vendor who subs out work to a foreign national. The first one is highly illegal. The second one is commonplace and completely legal.

Steele was a private citizen. He didn't represent Great Britain or a governmental entity. He isn't a foreign government, either. He was hired by a domestic US firm (a vendor of the Clinton campaign) to do research and intel work. It's the difference between hiring an American vendor to print your campaign signs (and they then have them printed in China) and demanding the Chinese government print your campaign signs for free unless they want you to take adverse governmental action against them.

I'm extremely concerned when people in 2020 don't understand the difference between a foreign government being extorted into doing something to benefit a campaign/candidate versus a citizen of a foreign country working a contract for a campaign vendor.

Foreign nationals cannot donate or contribute something of value to any electoral campaign. But they can be contracted or hired by a campaign vendor to do work. In one case, the foreign national is directly giving money or something of value to a campaign in hope of having influence over a campaign/candidate. In the other, the CAMPAIGN is paying a vendor who then pays a contractor for their work.

Look at it this way. If I volunteer my money, time, and supplies to install an air conditioner at a church then I've made a tax deductible donation. However, if the church calls me up and hires my company to install an air conditioner, and I sub out the work to someone, I am not making a donation. I'm conducting business.

The MAGA hats that the Trump campaign has sold were found to be made in China. I don't know if this has changed, but for a long period of time they were made in China. That's not improper. Nothing wrong with it legally or ethically. However, if instead of paying a Chinese company to produce the hats, the Trump campaign accepted a donation of 500k hats from a Chinese company or the Chinese government, that would be illegal and unethical. Even more egregious would be if the campaign told the Chinese government "either give us 500k hats for free or we'll put a tariff on you."

I really don't understand how people do not understand or comprehend the difference.

Who has influence over the church in my example above? The church member who donates their time, money, and supplies to install an AC for free, or the sub-contractor who installs an AC for the church in a routine business transaction? I highly doubt the pastor much cares what some subcontractor installing an AC thinks about his church's position on gay marriage. But, you can bet he cares a lot about the opinion of the church member who donates all kind of time, money, and supplies to the church.

 

[gangstonc]

Economist/YouGov Poll:

should House try to impeach Trump?
50% yes
39% no

if House impeaches, should Senate remove Trump from office?
51% yes
39% no

 

[Matt]

What are your sources for this? Trump even said he withheld money. It was congressionally appropriated and he withheld it.

At the time of the call the Ukraines were unaware of threats to hold the money. They eventually received the money.

 

[Matt]

Tom Bossert said that is "completely debunked." Do you have a source or evidence backing up your claim that Ukraine was providing dirt to Democrats in 2016?

Alexandra Chalupa.

 

[gangstonc]

At the time of the call the Ukraines were unaware of threats to hold the money. They eventually received the money.

Strong source.

 

[Evan]

He did not withhold any money. Where is the concern about Obama launching unwarranted investigations on Trump and his campaign during the 2016 election cycle ?

Yes, he did. And even the Republicans in Congress have explicitly confirmed that Trump held up the aid.

Yep, the President withheld aid.

Further evidence Trump withheld the aid

Mr. Johnson’s account, coupled with a release of text messages involving Mr. Sondland by three House committees late Thursday, show Trump administration officials believed there was a link between Mr. Trump’s decision in July to order a hold on nearly $400 million in aid to Ukraine and his interest in having Ukraine investigate 2016 and Mr. Biden. Mr. Trump ordered the hold a week before the July 25 call with Mr. Zelensky.

Speaking to reporters Friday, Mr. Trump again denied a connection between his efforts to press Ukraine and his hold on aid to the country. The president rejected the idea that he was pushing for a probe of Mr. Biden for political reasons.

 

[skelly]

Because there's a massive difference in a campaign accepting foreign assistance, donations, or contributions and paying a campaign vendor who subs out work to a foreign national. The first one is highly illegal. The second one is commonplace and completely legal.

Steele was a private citizen. He didn't represent Great Britain or a governmental entity. He isn't a foreign government, either. He was hired by a domestic US firm (a vendor of the Clinton campaign) to do research and intel work. It's the difference between hiring an American vendor to print your campaign signs (and they then have them printed in China) and demanding the Chinese government print your campaign signs for free unless they want you to take adverse governmental action against them.

I'm extremely concerned when people in 2020 don't understand the difference between a foreign government being extorted into doing something to benefit a campaign/candidate versus a citizen of a foreign country working a contract for a campaign vendor.

Foreign nationals cannot donate or contribute something of value to any electoral campaign. But they can be contracted or hired by a campaign vendor to do work. In one case, the foreign national is directly giving money or something of value to a campaign in hope of having influence over a campaign/candidate. In the other, the CAMPAIGN is paying a vendor who then pays a contractor for their work.

Look at it this way. If I volunteer my money, time, and supplies to install an air conditioner at a church then I've made a tax deductible donation. However, if the church calls me up and hires my company to install an air conditioner, and I sub out the work to someone, I am not making a donation. I'm conducting business.

The MAGA hats that the Trump campaign has sold were found to be made in China. I don't know if this has changed, but for a long period of time they were made in China. That's not improper. Nothing wrong with it legally or ethically. However, if instead of paying a Chinese company to produce the hats, the Trump campaign accepted a donation of 500k hats from a Chinese company or the Chinese government, that would be illegal and unethical. Even more egregious would be if the campaign told the Chinese government "either give us 500k hats for free or we'll put a tariff on you."

I really don't understand how people do not understand or comprehend the difference.

Who has influence over the church in my example above? The church member who donates their time, money, and supplies to install an AC for free, or the sub-contractor who installs an AC for the church in a routine business transaction? I highly doubt the pastor much cares what some subcontractor installing an AC thinks about his church's position on gay marriage. But, you can bet he cares a lot about the opinion of the church member who donates all kind of time, money, and supplies to the church.

I think most people understand the difference. So no one is concerned about Biden shaking down the Ukrainians. Ok. That’s consistent.

While he was Vice President, his son lands a job as a consultant for an energy company for 50 G a month. Biden sees that a Ukrainian prosecutor looking into the company how Hunter got the job, Biden sees to it that the prosecutor gets fired. “But your not the President “ “ If you don’t believe me call the White House...”

Yeah I think lot of people see no difference.

If Trump tried to six the fbi on him, I’m sure a”whistle blower” would of went straight to the Schiff, uh, I mean the IG.

So let us get the popcorn. I think that Trump is smart to say hey I’m not cooperating with any of your requests for info unless you go ahead and call a vote for impeachment.

 

[Matt]

Read Paul Sperry's Tweets. He said the WB was digging dirt on Trump with anti Trump Ukrainians while working at Obama's WH in 2016. Would like to see his evidence.