Oh, I thought I was hallucinating for a sec... but nope, @AJS did indeed log back in to his old account.
Take this with a grain of salt, because 1928, but grazulis said in his book the tornado nature’s ultimate windstorm, that it “plowed furrows 4 to 6 feet deep, a farmer noted ‘that’s deep enough to bury a horse’” it moved very slowly.
Dang sick @SweptSlab5
Oh dude, you have no idea how annoyed that I was that I had to log back into this account lmao. I read my old messages and apparently I used to think that Washington, IL 2013 was one of the strongest tornadoes of all time. I’m sure @buckeye05 would love to go back to those good old days and have a very fun discussion with 13 year old me about that lol.
One of my main issues with this house is the debris pattern. Some large structural components are still intact within the debris pile in that pic. I’d be more comfortable with considering EF5 if the degree of obliteration and sweeping was more complete.I know I've been one of this forum's most adamant proponents of an EF5 rating for Holly Springs (and still am) but honestly, that's a fair stance. Still, imo it speaks more to the awful quality of the survey than the intensity of the tornado itself.
Even though MEG left us with a puzzle, I do think the granulation and other damage at the Motorsports Park, and vehicle mangling/ground scouring/anchored home in the Ashland area paint a pretty clear intensity picture IMO.
And here's the home in question... not a totally clean sweep, I'll admit. If this was where the tornado peaked in intensity, I'd honestly agree with EF4 tbh.
There are definitely anchor bolts though, visible where the partial sill plates remain. Interestingly, beyond that are some holes along the perimeter of the slab; I think the bolts may have been torn out. Again, to be noted is that the tornado had already weakened slightly when it passed over this residence on Blackjack Rd on the far northeastern edge of Ashland.
(I also note the look of the hill in the background, but idk if it's true scouring or just typical patchy late-season grass, so I'll leave that open to interpretation).
If we were rating this like Enderlin (purely on contextuals) and you were surveying, would you give the racetrack area an EF5 rating?
As the old speedbump305 would say:
The barrier is indeed pretty impressive, and I remember when this happened, the general consensus was that something heavy like a vehicle smashed into it. But the issue is that we’re likely looking at damage from a debris impact rather than raw wind damage. So how do you calculate that? With Enderlin, it was just wind alone, and I’d classify that rating as calculation based rather than context based. The problem with the Holly Springs barrier is that I want to see some calculations and numbers, but I don’t know how one would arrive at wind speeds from damage that occurs “by proxy” largely as a result of mass and kinetic energy, versus just straight up wind.
Diaz seemed very borderline for me. That, in my opinion is a place where 195 or 200mph would actually work and not screw up the ratings.
I was very impressed with the damage to the home and the surrounding area. The contextual damage in my opinion honestly met the criteria in my opinion. I feel like if the bolt spacing had not been as wide, it mayyyyy have had a shot. But that’s a big maybe though.
I just don't see any way it could recieve EF5 with the giant tree sitting in the middle of the slab. Debris is already used as an exuse even when there isn't a giant culprit staring you in the face. Diaz is just a great example of the sample size being too small. I think I actually agree with the 190 mph rating.
I actually agree with you here. Again, EF4 is fine for that particular residence, even if the assigned windspeed was on the lower side IMO.
Oh I remember that house; it’s one of the cleanest sweeps I’ve ever seen. I agree the tornado almost certainly peaked around that area, but my issue is that it was clearly an old unanchored block foundation home like you mentioned. Contextually impressive, but way too structurally frail to be considered for an EF5 rating. Now if we saw this kind of context at the other more well-built slab foundation home, then we’d be talking. But in reality It’s one of those cases where the two crucial components for an EF5 rating (construction and context) are present, but fail to overlap at a single location.I actually agree with you here. Again, EF4 is fine for that particular residence, even if the assigned windspeed was on the lower side IMO.
Again, the main thing that convinces me of higher intensity is that the tornado had already weakened slightly in the far northeastern corner of Ashland.
Unfortunately, because the survey was so poorly done, the only other ground level photo I can find of a slabbed home is this one. It was a (presumably unanchored) block foundation home, though it basically disappeared with little debris remaining. Sadly, three people died in this house, including one who was thrown a quarter mile away and not found for days.
I think he might be using Nick Kras' analysis as a basis. Let's break each house he covered down.
From what i could remember, apparently the Kuehl Court home (200 mph one) lacked of washers and nuts in some of the bolts. Nothing too violent on contextuals aside from displacement of concrete sidewalk while the tree in front of the home is still standing and unscathed.
I'd argue Rochelle deserves like at least 180 or 185 mph EF4. Cisco on other hand was pretty violent based on the tree damage and the vehicle damage (maybe the scouring too)
