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Significant Tornado Events

SweptSlab5 said:
Should an EEF scale be made? What would best improve the EF scale. I am in favor of much more contextual Di's being added. Also, things such as lofting DI's would be nice.
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These are all good ideas that have been discussed ad naseum, but I've been thinking more and more lately that it's actually the surveyors who are screwed up rather than the system. If it's actually a damage scale then use it like one. Maximum damage to a home (slab swept clean) should recieve a maximum rating. That is literally the original intent of both scales.

Designing a new scale won't do anything if the surveyors refuse to obey it. The "expected" wind speed value of a well engineered home with slab swept clean is 200 mph on the EF scale. The threshold for EF5 is 200 mph. This is a feature not a bug. It's crazy how many people have forgotten that. It only just clicked with me recently.
 
WeathermanLeprechaun said:
Any further discussion about this probably goes to the EF debate thread.
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Yeah, you're right. The problem is it's pretty much impossible to talk about Vilonia without also talking about the EF scale. The way its survey completely broke everything is one of the most significant aspects of it. It might be one of the most significant tornadoes in history with how much of a turning point it was.
 
SweptSlab5 said:
Should an EEF scale be made? What would best improve the EF scale. I am in favor of much more contextual Di's being added. Also, things such as lofting DI's would be nice.
Click to expand...
Like @WeathermanLeprechaun said, that discussion really belongs in the EF scale debate thread, but anyways... imho, the original Fujita scale was better (ESPECIALLY in the estimated wind speed department). The EF scale is better in theory, sure... but in hindsight, the rating system should have just been left alone.

Grand Poo Bah said:
These are all good ideas that have been discussed ad naseum, but I've been thinking more and more lately that it's actually the surveyors who are screwed up rather than the system. If it's actually a damage scale then use it like one. Maximum damage to a home (slab swept clean) should recieve a maximum rating. That is literally the original intent of both scales.

Designing a new scale won't do anything if the surveyors refuse to obey it. The "expected" wind speed value of a well engineered home with slab swept clean is 200 mph on the EF scale. The threshold for EF5 is 200 mph. This is a feature not a bug. It's crazy how many people have forgotten that. It only just clicked with me recently.
Click to expand...
Minor correction, but I believe the scale was designed so a home of "good but average construction" would cap out at EF4 200, with contextual damage being the deciding factor on whether or not to push the rating to EF5.

One of the biggest problems is that throughout the scale's tenure, surveyors have been oh so hesitant to use context for an upgrade, the way the scale was DESIGNED to function, but no problems at all using context to downgrade, even in egregious cases.
 
Grand Poo Bah said:
Yeah, you're right. The problem is it's pretty much impossible to talk about Vilonia without also talking about the EF scale. The way its survey completely broke everything is one of the most significant aspects of it. It might be one of the most significant tornadoes in history with how much of a turning point it was.
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Oh, i absolutely agree. It was the turning point (bad) that led to a ultimately conservative period for NWS ratings. This maybe be the end of it or just a red herring but we will see....
 
TH2002 said:
Like @WeathermanLeprechaun said, that discussion really belongs in the EF scale debate thread, but anyways... imho, the original Fujita scale was better (ESPECIALLY in the estimated wind speed department). The EF scale is better in theory, sure... but in hindsight, the rating system should have just been left alone.
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I just had a surgery like an hour ago so sorry if I say anything stupid, but I don't really agree that the F scale was better. Not only are the windspeed estimates horrendously off, it also at face value fails to account for building construction (sliders, mobile homes, etc.) and goes off vibes instead of actually analyzing structures based on build quality.

But yes, this is an EF debate thread conversation.
 
Central Ohio Wx said:
I just had a surgery like an hour ago so sorry if I say anything stupid, but I don't really agree that the F scale was better. Not only are the windspeed estimates horrendously off, it also at face value fails to account for building construction (sliders, mobile homes, etc.) and goes off vibes instead of actually analyzing structures based on build quality.

But yes, this is an EF debate thread conversation.
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Feel Better Take Care GIF by Lucas and Friends by RV AppStudios


@Central Ohio Wx
 
I emailed NWS Des Moines about this swept away home that went unrated, but they haven't responded. So I want to personally rate the home and see what it would most likely get if it was officially rated. This was a three bedroom home built in 1996. Home not too old. On the tweet that originally posted the photos and videos of this home, the top comments had people believing this was EF5 damage, considering this was taken during the whole Greenfield EF5 hype, but this home suffers from several problems.

Structurally:
1. The one story home had a large garage that was facing towards the tornadic winds
2. Most of the sill plates remained on the foundation.
3. It seems like a couple of the anchor bolts are missing proper nuts and washers
Contextually:
1. The home directly right to the swept home only suffered EF1 damage
2. A tree, while knocked over, wasn't debranched/debarked.

Some positive to point out is that the anchor bolts seem to be properly spaced out and the sill-plates were toenailed. Personally, this home would get rated EF4/175. With the range between 165-175 mph.
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Another tornado has been upgraded to IF5. The a tornado in pavia, Italy in 1957. I would upload a screenshot but it won’t load on my device :(
 
GrenadinesDes said:
I emailed NWS Des Moines about this swept away home that went unrated, but they haven't responded. So I want to personally rate the home and see what it would most likely get if it was officially rated. This was a three bedroom home built in 1996. Home not too old. On the tweet that originally posted the photos and videos of this home, the top comments had people believing this was EF5 damage, considering this was taken during the whole Greenfield EF5 hype, but this home suffers from several problems.

Structurally:
1. The one story home had a large garage that was facing towards the tornadic winds
2. Most of the sill plates remained on the foundation.
3. It seems like a couple of the anchor bolts are missing proper nuts and washers
Contextually:
1. The home directly right to the swept home only suffered EF1 damage
2. A tree, while knocked over, wasn't debranched/debarked.

Some positive to point out is that the anchor bolts seem to be properly spaced out and the sill-plates were toenailed. Personally, this home would get rated EF4/175. With the range between 165-175 mph.
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Great finds! I've never seen these pics before and I thought I had dug up everything on Greenfield. I have more pictures to contribute, but can't post them until this dang site is fixed.

Any updates
@Mike S @StormStalker @JayF @greenem81 ?
 
Does anyone here have some rare pictures/stories from the Holly springs Mississippi tornado from 12/23/2015? Tomorrow will be the 10 year anniversary.
Watched TWC coverage all day during that event.
 
GrenadinesDes said:
I emailed NWS Des Moines about this swept away home that went unrated, but they haven't responded. So I want to personally rate the home and see what it would most likely get if it was officially rated. This was a three bedroom home built in 1996. Home not too old. On the tweet that originally posted the photos and videos of this home, the top comments had people believing this was EF5 damage, considering this was taken during the whole Greenfield EF5 hype, but this home suffers from several problems.

Structurally:
1. The one story home had a large garage that was facing towards the tornadic winds
2. Most of the sill plates remained on the foundation.
3. It seems like a couple of the anchor bolts are missing proper nuts and washers
Contextually:
1. The home directly right to the swept home only suffered EF1 damage
2. A tree, while knocked over, wasn't debranched/debarked.

Some positive to point out is that the anchor bolts seem to be properly spaced out and the sill-plates were toenailed. Personally, this home would get rated EF4/175. With the range between 165-175 mph.
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Site is fixed! I'm not sure if it's just me, but it looks like your pics got broken somehow. Maybe you can edit your comment and re upload? That'd be appreciated because I never got them downloaded :(

The EF scale accounts for attached garages, so I don't think that should be a reason for going below the expected wind speed for slab swept clean.

1766512331699.png

Here's a further zoomed out shot of the house from Jordan Hall's drone video. As you can see there are several trees debarked and denuded in the immediate vicinity.

1766512416587.jpeg

If you zoom out further you can see the EF1 house to the right and complete utter destruction on the left

1766512442064.jpeg

The best explanation for the house on the right is that this tornado had one of the craziest damage gradients you will ever see. It was an absolute drillbit.



This just leaves the missing nuts and washers, which is definitely significant if true. My only question is --and I hope someone here can answer this-- if the bolts were missing nuts and washers then how did they get bent? Wouldn't the sill plate have just slid right off?
 
Grand Poo Bah said:
Site is fixed! I'm not sure if it's just me, but it looks like your pics got broken somehow. Maybe you can edit your comment and re upload? That'd be appreciated because I never got them downloaded :(

The EF scale accounts for attached garages, so I don't think that should be a reason for going below the expected wind speed for slab swept clean.

View attachment 49242

Here's a further zoomed out shot of the house from Jordan Hall's drone video. As you can see there are several trees debarked and denuded in the immediate vicinity.

View attachment 49243

If you zoom out further you can see the EF1 house to the right and complete utter destruction on the left

View attachment 49244

The best explanation for the house on the right is that this tornado had one of the craziest damage gradients you will ever see. It was an absolute drillbit.



This just leaves the missing nuts and washers, which is definitely significant if true. My only question is --and I hope someone here can answer this-- if the bolts were missing nuts and washers then how did they get bent? Wouldn't the sill plate have just slid right off?
Click to expand...

I’m not gonna lie, the more images I see from Greenfield, the more impressed I am. That amount of destruction in such a short amount of time is very impressive.
 
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