MNTornadoGuy
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I truly feel like this day was pretty much like May 4, 2007. Massive wedges capable of producing EF4-EF5 damage. That ground scouring is really extreme and this really makes me wonder what the Mullinville tornado path looks like on satellite.On May 23rd, 2008 a particularly large and intense tornado developed southwest of Hopewell, Kansas near the same areas devastated a year prior on May 4-5th, 2007. While officially rated EF3, this monstrous tornado likely was much stronger. As it skirted west of Hopewell, the tornado likely attained peak intensity and ballooned to over 1.3 miles wide. Satellite imagery 2 months after the storm shows pronounced ground scouring and extreme vegetation damage, shown below.
View attachment 40405
Before and after aerial showing scouring and extreme tree damage. This scouring pattern and vortex structure is similar to the EF5 Greensburg tornado.
View attachment 40406View attachment 40407
Higher resolution imagery 3 years later shows the extent of damage to trees. Numerous groves of trees were thoroughly stripped and debarked, visible even years after the tornado.
View attachment 40408
An old farmstead was also impacted by the centerline of the vortex and completely destroyed, with debris patterns similar to that of high-end tornadoes. The site was left untouched since 2008.
View attachment 40409
Old farmhouse wiped off its foundation.
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The tornado also dealt glancing blows to a number of farms in the area, pictured below. One survivor account claimed an audible ‘hum’ and roar could be heard in the minutes before the tornado struck, and that a noticeable lull — or an eye — was accompanied with the tornado before the second ‘wave’ hit. Scoured cornstalks and soil was forced into the house and basement as well.
View attachment 40412
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Remains of a grain bin deposited into a field.
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Finally, a photo of the tornado itself made visible by lightning.
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This tornado marked the 6th significant tornado to strike within a 10 mile radius of Hopewell in a 12 month span, 4 of which were greater than 1 mile in width.
The chase log then states they waited for another storm coming into the area which dropped 2 more tornadoes, but they were stopped again at Dover by more tornado damage. After reading all of this, I came to the conclusion that all the "Dover" photos were actually of Geary, and that Satkus and Payne never saw the Dover tornado to begin with.[A]s we neared Geary from the east a tornado formed rapidly, starting out as a rather sinuous, ropy vortex, becoming a larger multiple vortex and quickly evolved into a wedge. It moved rapidly northeast, and even though it was now dark, the lightning illuminated it nicely. It maintained its wedge shape for along time. At one time there was a debris whirl southwest of the tornado and later we saw a second, small cone tornado south of the wedge. This process occured another time soon after. We followed it to west of Kingfisher as it approached Dover, but west of Kingfisher on hwy 33 we were stopped by debris. It was a narrow path, so I am asuming this damage was caused by one of the satellite tornadoes.
Alright time to dig up a topic I brought up a long time ago: the Satkus/Payne photos from 5/3/99.
View attachment 40459
Nowadays, this photo (and several others in the series) are generally believed to be of the Dover, OK F4. But, a long time ago, I found this:
I was curious if they had taken any photos of the Geary F3 that had preceded it, and, well...
The chase log then states they waited for another storm coming into the area which dropped 2 more tornadoes, but they were stopped again at Dover by more tornado damage. After reading all of this, I came to the conclusion that all the "Dover" photos were actually of Geary, and that Satkus and Payne never saw the Dover tornado to begin with.
But, even after informing OKTornadoDB on Twitter (and also Locomusic here), I still saw him using the photo posted here in a Dover retrospective, and he stated Satkus reported the tornado heading into Dover. So.... what's the truth? Is this photo of the Geary F3 or the Dover F4? And on a side note, did anyone besides Satkus and Payne take any photos of the Dover tornado?
Years ago for my tornado climatology article I used a tweaked version of Rich Thompson's DPI metric to rank outbreaks and IIRC my list came out quite similar. In fact I think mine also resulted in 5/31/85 outscoring Palm Sunday, among other oddities. It's hard to draw many conclusions without knowing how they're weighting their variables, but I'm always inclined to chalk it up to the historical record being garbage. Using Grazulis' data would probably clean up a lot, although it's still not perfect and would be a pain to do.Not quite sure of the right location for this.
A few people in the various severe weather threads have mentioned a paper whose lead author is our favourite pink-pencil wielding forecaster (if anyone here doesn't know where the Broyles meme comes from, it's his long standing combo of generally bullish forecasts and aggressive wording). Aims of the project are to improve outbreak forecasting and come up with a consistent way to determine risk categories.
Part of the paper is spent on something called a 'risk impact value', which is an attempt at "estimating the negative community impact of a tornado outbreak" based on track data. This is to provide a more objective way to determine what events 'deserved' a high risk. It includes weightings for number, length, strength etc, with results evaluated by other forecasters. Unfortunately, although they give some details (e.g. that each criterion is based on percentiles, and that they're weighted), they don't give the actual formula/e, or full details of how they constructed the model.
There's some GIGO-potential. For example, using seven F5s for the Super Outbreak (it was six, according to the person who actually assigned the ratings) and the obvious inconsistencies of ratings over the offical dataset, undercounting, and the recording of families as continuous paths (particularly as consideration was given for events over 100 miles). Nonetheless, the initial version produces an agreeable ordering of the events they tested it on, as shown in their figure 2 and 'RIV Top 20 Events (2000 to 2024)' table.
Where things are a bit odd though, is when it is applied to the full dataset (apologies for the wonky columns):
Top 20 Events (1950 to 2024)
Rank Date RIV Deaths
1: April 3, 1974 405.8 310
2: April 27, 2011 252.8 316
3: May 31, 1985 169.4 76
4: May 27, 1973 136.2 9
5: April 11, 1965 125.6 260
6: June 7, 1984 116.6 13
7: June 2, 1990 116.1 9
8: March 13, 1990 106.1 2
9: June 4, 1955 97.9 0
10: April 12, 2020 93.2 30
11: March 21, 1952 87.5 205
12: June 8, 1974 87.5 22
13: March 31, 2023 85.4 23
14: April 2, 1982 85.3 30
15: May 24, 2011 82.0 18
16: June 16, 1992 80.8 1
17: April 26, 1991 73.7 21
18: February 5, 2008 69.7 57
19: Nov. 22, 1992 68.2 10
20: May 20, 1957 68.0 44
Most of that's good and fine, albeit the placing of 31/5/85 over Palm Sunday is a surprise (and makes me think F/EF5 has a heavy weighting). But there's a couple of oddities.
The first is the 27/5/73 outbreak, ranking ahead of more famous outbreaks like Palm Sunday 1965. It produced, officially, 24 significant tornadoes, which is high but not exceptional (many on the list had more). Many of these have no path length and Grazulis only lists fifteen. All three F3+ long track tornadoes were probably families. I'd guess there's a heavy weight on the 135 mile Brent EF4. Grazulis lists this is a family, but one witness claims they followed it continuously in a plane. Ordinarily that would be good enough for me, but LandSat agrees with Grazulis. I suspect better data would knock this one off the list.
The second is June 4 1955, which is ranked ninth. I don't understand how this made the list with six significant tornadoes. There's two long track F4s, though Grazulis (almost certainly correctly) gives them much shorter paths. Is it a mistake? Is the coverage criterion throwing things off?
Lastly, where's 10/12/21?
In all an interesting section when it comes to ranking and rating major outbeaks, but the lack of the actual algorithm and a couple of odd details make me hope there's further articles that explain things better in the future.
Y'know, with so many historical tornadoes having their first ever photos revealed this year (Colfax 1958, New Harmony 2011, and we also (decently-)solidified the validity of that one Tanner #1 1974 photo this year too), maybe this is the year we finally get that 5/31/85 Moshannon-shaped holy grail.......just a hunch....Also re: 5/31/85, I've been working with a few different news stations on projects for the upcoming anniversary, so I've been making another effort to dig up more photos. I'll post more later, but here are some from the Grand Valley F4 for now:
Here's a (slightly) better version of that btw, it's from the 4/5/74 edition of The Huntsville Times:Y'know, with so many historical tornadoes having their first ever photos revealed this year (Colfax 1958, New Harmony 2011, and we also (decently-)solidified the validity of that one Tanner #1 1974 photo this year too), maybe this is the year we finally get that 5/31/85 Moshannon-shaped holy grail.......just a hunch....
Does anyone have any information on the Greeley, CO tornado from the previous day? It was rated EF3.On May 23rd, 2008 a particularly large and intense tornado developed southwest of Hopewell, Kansas near the same areas devastated a year prior on May 4-5th, 2007. While officially rated EF3, this monstrous tornado likely was much stronger. As it skirted west of Hopewell, the tornado likely attained peak intensity and ballooned to over 1.3 miles wide. Satellite imagery 2 months after the storm shows pronounced ground scouring and extreme vegetation damage, shown below.
View attachment 40405
Before and after aerial showing scouring and extreme tree damage. This scouring pattern and vortex structure is similar to the EF5 Greensburg tornado.
View attachment 40406View attachment 40407
Higher resolution imagery 3 years later shows the extent of damage to trees. Numerous groves of trees were thoroughly stripped and debarked, visible even years after the tornado.
View attachment 40408
An old farmstead was also impacted by the centerline of the vortex and completely destroyed, with debris patterns similar to that of high-end tornadoes. The site was left untouched since 2008.
View attachment 40409
Old farmhouse wiped off its foundation.
View attachment 40411
The tornado also dealt glancing blows to a number of farms in the area, pictured below. One survivor account claimed an audible ‘hum’ and roar could be heard in the minutes before the tornado struck, and that a noticeable lull — or an eye — was accompanied with the tornado before the second ‘wave’ hit. Scoured cornstalks and soil was forced into the house and basement as well.
View attachment 40412
View attachment 40413
Remains of a grain bin deposited into a field.
View attachment 40414
Finally, a photo of the tornado itself made visible by lightning.
View attachment 40415
This tornado marked the 6th significant tornado to strike within a 10 mile radius of Hopewell in a 12 month span, 4 of which were greater than 1 mile in width.
I wonder if there's an actual funnel photo from the Grand Valley F4Also re: 5/31/85, I've been working with a few different news stations on projects for the upcoming anniversary, so I've been making another effort to dig up more photos. I'll post more later, but here are some from the Grand Valley F4 for now:
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