Significant Tornado Events

[HAwkmoon]

il give you a example of all the reason why each of them would not be rated EF5 today...

note... what im about to say is using the logic of NWS 2014+ and a lot of this was said with villonia in particular

greensburg: trees standing within 50 yards and debris from all the homes touched the EF5 damage thus EF4

elie: no scouring and one F5 Di , trees standing close by thus F4 (old scale and canada but i put it here since its post 2000)

Parkersburg: 2 homes rated EF5 since they were alone and had major debris granulation no trees standing within 100 yards, and some ground scouring nearby thus EF5. (however all other areas were hit by debris thus the main parkersburg area has no EF5 rated area)

Philadelphia: trees still standing close by and no true EF5 di found, thus EF4.

Smithville: trees standing within 50 yards , most of the buildings were hit by debris form other homes thus EF4.

Phil campbell: homes were hit by debris nearby for most areas, small shrubs and bushes are fine beside the so call EF5 damage, no ground scouring in most areas and trees standing close by ... thus EF4 (note tim marshall wanted this one to only be rated EF4)

Rainsville: homes hit by debris in some areas , trees standing within 30 yards away thus EF4.

Joplin: trees standing within 100 yards in some spots... every home were hit by debris thus EF4.

el reno 2011: only one good area that could be found as EF5 damage... however not a official di and we can not rate a tornado EF5 base on one di... thus... EF4...

Moore 2013: trees standing within 100 yards away.... homes all hit by debris , only EF0 damage beside some of the EF5 damage... thus EF4.. (home home did not suffer from debris impact however had trees standing close by)

so ya .. thats why likely most of them would not be rated EF5.... sadly...


oh and just to be sure before anyone says villonia and mayfeild had one tiny flaw in the construction ... that isnt the point .. the point is they mostly had to use debris impact... trees standing 100 yards .... and cant rate this ef5 cause one di only.... if its poor quality... then so be it... but they had no reason to bring up trees far away or only one EF5 damage point..Tha

No, Trees standing just decreased confidence to homes that were already borderline/ had issues. In the EF5 tornadoes, the homes had no issues that lacked confidence.

 

[HAwkmoon]

il give you a example of all the reason why each of them would not be rated EF5 today...

note... what im about to say is using the logic of NWS 2014+ and a lot of this was said with villonia in particular

• greensburg: trees standing within 50 yards and debris from all the homes touched the EF5 damage thus EF4
• elie: no scouring and one F5 Di , trees standing close by thus F4 (old scale and canada but i put it here since its post 2000)
• Parkersburg: 2 homes rated EF5 since they were alone and had major debris granulation no trees standing within 100 yards, and some ground scouring nearby thus EF5. (however all other areas were hit by debris thus the main parkersburg area has no EF5 rated area)
• Philadelphia: trees still standing close by and no true EF5 di found, thus EF4.
• Smithville: trees standing within 50 yards , most of the buildings were hit by debris form other homes thus EF4.
• Phil campbell: homes were hit by debris nearby for most areas, small shrubs and bushes are fine beside the so call EF5 damage, no ground scouring in most areas and trees standing close by ... thus EF4 (note tim marshall wanted this one to only be rated EF4)
• Rainsville: homes hit by debris in some areas , trees standing within 30 yards away thus EF4.
• Joplin: trees standing within 100 yards in some spots... every home were hit by debris thus EF4.
• el reno 2011: only one good area that could be found as EF5 damage... however not a official di and we can not rate a tornado EF5 base on one di... thus... EF4...
• Moore 2013: trees standing within 100 yards away.... homes all hit by debris , only EF0 damage beside some of the EF5 damage... thus EF4.. (home home did not suffer from debris impact however had trees standing close by)

so ya .. thats why likely most of them would not be rated EF5.... sadly...


oh and just to be sure before anyone says villonia and mayfeild had one tiny flaw in the construction ... that isnt the point .. the point is they mostly had to use debris impact... trees standing 100 yards .... and cant rate this ef5 cause one di only.... if its poor quality... then so be it... but they had no reason to bring up trees far away or only one EF5 damage point....

Each survey is individual, there is variation between them. Had the trees in Mayfield and Vilonia not been standing there would be more confidence even though the homes had issues. However Vilonia had many homes not surveyed and I think it deserved EF5.

 

[joshoctober16]

No, Trees standing just decreased confidence to homes that were already borderline/ had issues. In the EF5 tornadoes, the homes had no issues that lacked confidence.

i sure hope so but i see not evidence that says this is true or false... however... it seems the one EF5 di rule isn't a confidence thing the way the put it...



its to also note for the mayfeild one you can clearly see the sub vortex tracks at this one home ... and you clearly see them miss this tree.... once again... nws seems to want to ignore the fact that sub vortexes exist.....

there are multiple homes that seem to have been EF5 form the villonia tornado , one spacifucly that is quite alone and massive was never rated....

 

[HAwkmoon]

i sure hope so but i see not evidence that says this is true or false... however... it seems the one EF5 di rule isn't a confidence thing the way the put it...

View attachment 30925

its to also note for the mayfeild one you can clearly see the sub vortex tracks at this one home ... and you clearly see them miss this tree.... once again... nws seems to want to ignore the fact that sub vortexes exist.....

there are multiple homes that seem to have been EF5 form the villonia tornado , one spacifucly that is quite alone and massive was never rated....

Vilonia i agree, but that home from vilonia had straight nailed studs with unknown reinforcement, hence this structural fact combined with contextuals not being supportive of the rating meant it got EF4, and also there was a tree a couple yards still intact. However the other I homes I agree deserve EF5. As for Bremen, that home was not built well enough to be given EF5 anyway.

 

[TH2002]

Vilonia i agree, but that home from vilonia had straight nailed studs with unknown reinforcement, hence this structural fact combined with contextuals not being supportive of the rating meant it got EF4, and also there was a tree a couple yards still intact. However the other I homes I agree deserve EF5. As for Bremen, that home was not built well enough to be given EF5 anyway.

The E Wicker Street home had 'unknown reinforcement' due to the survey team not bothering to do a thorough inspection of the property. That does not justify the rating. Also, it's been shown many times on this thread that the nearby standing trees sustained significant debarking, so I don't know what you're talking about when you say the contextuals weren't supportive of a higher rating.

 

[HAwkmoon]

The E Wicker Street home had 'unknown reinforcement' due to the survey team not bothering to do a thorough inspection of the property. That does not justify the rating. Also, it's been shown many times on this thread that the nearby standing trees sustained significant debarking, so I don't know what you're talking about when you say the contextuals weren't supportive of a higher rating.

Here is an aerial, the tree to the right is still standing, as for the unknown reinforcement I do agree, the survey was done poorly and an EF5 rating was deserved. My argument was in comparison to the EF5s rated, which equally deserved it. The only other weakness I see is unreinforced CMU blocks for the garage.

 

[TH2002]

Here is an aerial, the tree to the right is still standing, as for the unknown reinforcement I do agree, the survey was done poorly and an EF5 rating was deserved. My argument was in comparison to the EF5s rated, which equally deserved it. The only other weakness I see is unreinforced CMU blocks for the garage.

Where did you get that aerial? I'm curious to see if you have any others I haven't seen before.

 

[HAwkmoon]

Where did you get that aerial? I'm curious to see if you have any others I haven't seen before.

Can't actually remember, this was a while back before I started working mainly on Tri-State. I believe facebook?

 

[pohnpei]

its to note there are images of before and after of some homes , and the small shrub / bushes you tend to see completely debarked in tornadoes like bridge creek were missing without a trace , while i cant find that exact before and after iamge here is a image of that home and where the shrub/bushes were at.
View attachment 30922
the dark hole like spots were they used to be ... also notice the granulation is in little woodchip sized parts

before

after

before

after



note the shurb in front of the house

 

[HAwkmoon]

before
View attachment 30931
after
View attachment 30928
before
View attachment 30932View attachment 30933
after
View attachment 30929
View attachment 30930
View attachment 30935
note the shurb in front of the house

Here is another view of the Cox home. The core produced some extreme vegetation damage directly to the North.

 

[pohnpei]

Where did you get that aerial? I'm curious to see if you have any others I haven't seen before.

Other pics from that album. I remember these were posted before in this tread, couldnt remember the page though.

 

[pohnpei]

Could't remember if these were posted before. But Vilonia damaged a put-in-place concrete building in town which was extremely rare(happened only like 2-3 times in history)

 

[joshoctober16]

The E Wicker Street home had 'unknown reinforcement' due to the survey team not bothering to do a thorough inspection of the property. That does not justify the rating. Also, it's been shown many times on this thread that the nearby standing trees sustained significant debarking, so I don't know what you're talking about when you say the contextuals weren't supportive of a higher rating.

i did a map survey of all the possible EF5 areas.
heres all the ones to look into
note
Pink = possible EF5 but more likely EF4
Purple = possible EF5 but more likely EF5
Blue = EF5 zones


note the large lone house on bottom left.



small area of possible EF5 by it self seems similar to the final joplin rated scouring.



note that what appeares to be scouring to the south of outline i did isnt true scouring but chunks of hay that got thrown


the tanker that got thrown from villonia came form this area


a other large home that wasnt rated seen on the left blue outline, the other blue outline is the famous home people tend to talk about.



and that is all of the likely EF5 areas. there are some pink (more unlikely) areas i didn't show but none are over homes.

 

[pohnpei]

Another concrete building damage from tornados was from Joplin, west side of the hospital


aerial of this place

 

[tornadowatch211]

For some reason, finding photos from Smithville in AL is way harder than inside Smthville. So far the only photo I have in Alabama is this:

 

[HAwkmoon]

Another concrete building damage from tornados was from Joplin, west side of the hospital
View attachment 30961
View attachment 30965
aerial of this place
View attachment 30962
View attachment 30963
View attachment 30964
View attachment 30967

Hackleburg destroyed Wrangler Jeans, a three story concrete structure too. Tri-state did the same to various building such as the ones at Peabody Coal Mine #18, which I am not sure If I am allowed to share the high quality images sent to me by frankfort area geanological society. Princeton had the heinz Plant which was largely destroyed and various businesses in Murphysboro like Mcneal's bakery. But yeah that is impressive stuff from Vilonia and Joplin. Did they get rated those buildings?

 

[pohnpei]

Hackleburg destroyed Wrangler Jeans, a three story concrete structure too. Tri-state did the same to various building such as the ones at Peabody Coal Mine #18, which I am not sure If I am allowed to share the high quality images sent to me by frankfort area geanological society. Princeton had the heinz Plant which was largely destroyed and various businesses in Murphysboro like Mcneal's bakery. But yeah that is impressive stuff from Vilonia and Joplin. Did they get rated those buildings?

Wrangler Jeans in Hackleburg wasn't a real put-in-place concrete building. It just had concrete slabs as its outer shell, still impressive damage nothingness.

 

[HAwkmoon]

Wrangler Jeans in Hackleburg wasn't a real put-in-place concrete building. It just had concrete slabs as a outer shell, still impressive damage nothingness.

True enough. It was built to withstand 206 mph wind though.

 

[pohnpei]

The factory from Roanoke was a real put-in-place concrete building with steel frames built on thick concrete walls. I am not 100% certain that this damage was made by tornado but it's extremely impressive if it was.

 

[tornadowatch211]

Lately been researching weird things still standing while absolutely everything is obliterated around it.
Speaking of concrete, what happened here:

Apparently this foundation was cracked by Bridge Creek, but unsure of building quality.
Also the bank damage in Parkersburg was not “EF2”

Both Joplin, Parkersburg, and maybe more absolutely obliterated banks, yet the vault was still standing. Note the intense debris granulation in the foreground.
More extreme debris granulation:

Now for playgrounds, Even in the most violent EF5s (Moore 2013, Joplin) playgrounds are barely affected:


This is in Moore btw:

Finally, insane vehicular damage (First is Joplin, second is Moore)