Severe Weather 2021 (5 Viewers)

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Seen some nasty damage so far that would certainly merit at least an EF2 (and I expect the strongest damage to be worse), and there's been reports of a mass casuality event. Terrible, terrible event to have happen, especially overnight.

 

TH2002

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TH2002

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I can’t tell but if that was bolted we could be looking at damage from the second violent tornado of 2021.
Looks like the home was maybe bolted by the subflooring? If the Newnan tornado was rated low EF4 for sweeping away poorly anchored homes ripping away the subflooring intact there is no reason Woodridge shouldn't recieve the same rating IMO.
 

Brice Wood

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Looks like the home was maybe bolted by the subflooring? If the Newnan tornado was rated low EF4 for sweeping away poorly anchored homes ripping away the subflooring intact there is no reason Woodridge shouldn't recieve the same rating IMO.
Agreed, buts it’s in the NWS survey team, which like you said there’s no reason this tornado shouldn’t receive an EF4 rating
 

buckeye05

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Looks like the home was maybe bolted by the subflooring? If the Newnan tornado was rated low EF4 for sweeping away poorly anchored homes ripping away the subflooring intact there is no reason Woodridge shouldn't recieve the same rating IMO.
Leveling a house caused by separation of walls from subflooring is almost always rated EF3. Like I said, Newnan is a huge exception, and quite frankly a bad call by that survey team.
 

andyhb

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Agreed, buts it’s in the NWS survey team, which like you said there’s no reason this tornado shouldn’t receive an EF4 rating
Using this logic, there's no reason that Vilonia should be rated EF5 or the Houston/New Wren tornado from 4/27/11 should be rated higher than EF3, and we all know that's hogwash.
 

TH2002

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Using this logic, there's no reason that Vilonia should be rated EF5 or the Houston/New Wren tornado from 4/27/11 should be rated higher than EF3, and we all know that's hogwash.
So arguing that one tornado deserves a higher rating than what it will inevitably be assigned is the same thing as arguing a tornado should be rated lower than what was assigned?
 

Nightking2021

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Actually there is plenty of reasons why it shouldn’t be rated EF4. The Newnan, GA tornado shouldn’t have been rated EF4 to begin with.
Well fine high-end EF3 would be ok for this tornado. It seems like every tornado survey in the recent months have consistently low balled tornadoes. It is seeming almost next to impossible to get a tornado rated EF4 or higher! Thanks to policies from well renowned structural engineers who like to nit pick every detail.
 

buckeye05

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Well fine high-end EF3 would be ok for this tornado. It seems like every tornado survey in the recent months have consistently low balled tornadoes. It is seeming almost next to impossible to get a tornado rated EF4 or higher! Thanks to policies from well renowned structural engineers who like to nit pick every detail.
In this case, no. These are what are called Tract Homes (aka cookie-cutter homes). They are very common in the suburbs, are built like crap, and can be leveled by an EF3. Same thing happened in Coal City, IL back in June of 2015. The biggest give away that these weren’t violent tornadoes? Contextual evidence, or lack there of.

Debris granulation: none
Thrown/mangled cars: none
Severe debarking: none
Scouring: none
Debris pattern: piles with minimal scattering, and no wind rowing.

Even if the houses turn out to be bolted, total lack of contextual support will, and should negate a rating higher than EF3. This is not “nit picking”. This is pretty basic damage surveying rules of thumb, and some of ya’ll ought to know better.
 

Nightking2021

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In this case, no. These are what are called Tract Homes. They are very common in the suburbs, are built like crap, and can be leveled by an EF3. Same thing happened in Coal City, IL back in June of 2015. The biggest give away that these weren’t violent tornadoes? Contextual evidence, or lack there of.

Debris granulation: none
Thrown/mangled cars: none
Severe debarking: none
Scouring: none
Debris pattern: piles with minimal scattering, and no wind rowing.

Even if the houses turn out to be bolted, total lack of contextual support will, and should negate a rating higher than EF3. This is not “nit picking”. This is pretty basic damage surveying rules of thumb, and some of ya’ll ought to know better.
At this point I would side with a low-end EF3 rating. 25 to 30 years ago a tornado like this probably would have been rated F4 on the F-scale! I have been studying tornado damage for the past 30 years since I was 17 and do have at least some ideas on how tornadoes are rated!
 

buckeye05

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Whatever the case, in contemporary tornado damage surveying, a leveled house is no longer an automatic F4/EF4, and for good reason like the examples above. I don’t like hearing that unfairly classified as “nit-picking”.

Not that true nit-picking or bad surveying doesn’t occur sometimes. If you want real examples of that, just read almost any NWS Memphis, NWS Springfield, or NWS Dallas/Fort Worth damage survey of a significant tornado.
 

Nightking2021

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Whatever the case, in contemporary tornado damage surveying, a leveled house is no longer an automatic F4/EF4, and for good reason like the examples above. I don’t like hearing that unfairly classified as “nit-picking”.

Not that true nit-picking or bad surveying doesn’t occur sometimes. If you want real examples of that, just read almost any NWS Memphis, NWS Springfield, or NWS Dallas/Fort Worth damage survey of a significant tornado.
I agree with you on NWS in Memphis and Dallas-Fort Worth. Well Tim Marshall helps NWS Dallas-Fort Worth with surveys so perhaps he is also low balling tornadoes!
 

andyhb

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So arguing that one tornado deserves a higher rating than what it will inevitably be assigned is the same thing as arguing a tornado should be rated lower than what was assigned?
It sounds like he was saying that because it was an NWS survey team, the tornado deserved to be rated EF4. My point being is that there are often mistakes made (and in some cases, quite egregious ones) made by NWS survey teams that inconsistently apply the EF-scale.
 

Nightking2021

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It sounds like he was saying that because it was an NWS survey team, the tornado deserved to be rated EF4. My point being is that there are often mistakes made (and in some cases, quite egregious ones) made by NWS survey teams that inconsistently apply the EF-scale.
I am sure we can all agree there is no consistency from each NWS office on how tornadoes are rated.
 

TH2002

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It sounds like he was saying that because it was an NWS survey team, the tornado deserved to be rated EF4. My point being is that there are often mistakes made (and in some cases, quite egregious ones) made by NWS survey teams that inconsistently apply the EF-scale.
Very true.
 

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