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Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

Turns out there weren't any violent tornadoes in North Dakota on Friday, and the max winds were only 160 mph. Boy, do I feel silly! /s

Does anyone else agree we're currently in the worst period of underrating tornadoes since rating began, or is it just me?
 
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Grand Poo Bah said:
Turns out there weren't any violent tornadoes in North Dakota on Friday, and the max winds were only 160 mph. Boy, do I feel silly! /s

Does anyone else agree we're currently in the worst period of underrating tornadoes since rating began, or is it just me?
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The *clap* Surveys *clap* Are *clap* Not *clap* Done *clap* Yet *clap*

Give it a few days. Grand Forks has been shown to be liberal in the past. Look at the Dalton survey for example. We'll be fine.

Maybe.
 
Lake Martin EF4 said:
The *clap* Surveys *clap* Are *clap* Not *clap* Done *clap* Yet *clap*

Give it a few days. Grand Forks has been shown to be liberal in the past. Look at the Dalton survey for example. We'll be fine.

Maybe.
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If it gets upgraded it won't be because of structures, which makes me doubt it'll be upgraded. I actually have a question you might be able to answer. When was the last time a tornado was upgraded with a contextual indicator? I wonder how long it has been.
 
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Grand Poo Bah said:
If it gets upgraded it won't be because of structures, which makes me doubt it'll be upgraded. I actually have a question you might be able to answer. When was the last time a tornado was upgraded with a contextual indicator? I wonder how long it has been.
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Rolling Fork was given a lot of contextual EF4 damage like debarking of hardwood trees.
 
AJS said:
Rolling Fork was given a lot of contextual EF4 damage like debarking of hardwood trees.
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That's definitely relevant, recent, and good to know. I thought most offices stopped rating trees EF4. However, that is still technically an EF scale DI, and the upper bound for max damage for it is EF4. I'm more wondering about them going off scale to rate extreme feats (like tossing a train car).

1750782615124.png
 
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Grand Poo Bah said:
That's definitely relevant, recent, and good to know. I thought most offices stopped rating trees EF4. However, that is still technically an EF scale DI, and the upper bound for max damage for it is EF4. I'm more wondering about them going off scale to rate extreme feats (like tossing a train car).

View attachment 44461
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Oh and the recent London, KY tornado had some tree damage rated EF4 if I recall correctly.
 
AJS said:
Oh and the recent London, KY tornado had some tree damage rated EF4 if I recall correctly.
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Why would they rate London trees EF4 but not Grinnell? I honestly believe Grinnell and Enderlin are the strongest EF5 candidates of the year. Maybe Diaz based on the pole (and its 4 foot long concrete anchoring) it pulled out of the ground. There have been several EF3s that should've been rated EF4 this year.
 
Here's the tornadoes i'd say were for sure at least EF4 this year (in no particular order):

04/02 High Risk Day

1. 04/02/2025 Potosi, MO (rated EF3)

1750790942212.jpeg1750790952278.jpeg
1750791037807.png

2. 04/02/2025 Greenville, IL (rated EF2)

1750791130801.jpeg

3. 04/02/2025 Lake City, AR (rated EF3)
1750791265406.png
1750791307262.jpeg
1750791314235.jpeg1750791352746.jpeg

4. 04/02/2025 Selmer, TN (rated EF3)
1750791747034.png1750791830706.jpeg
 
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03/14-/03/16 Dixie Alley Outbreak (could be missing some here)

5. 03/14 Diaz, AR (rated EF4)
1750819861997.png

6. 03/14 Bakersfield, MO (Rated EF3)
1750792301472.jpeg1750793491726.jpeg
1750793531664.jpeg1750793547188.jpeg

7. 03/14 Larkin, AR (rated EF4)
8. 03/15 Tylertown, MS (rated EF4)
9. 03/14 Des Arc, MO (rated EF3)
1750793133118.jpeg
1750819940127.jpeg
 
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(Side Note: @WesL are you aware there's currently a 2mb file limit on the site? That's a tough limit to stay under because even most iPhone pictures are larger than that now. I'm having to use snipping tool to make smaller copies of a lot of pics on my desktop.) (edit: changed side note because it was sassy and making assumptions)

May 14-19 outbreak sequence

10. 05/17 St Louis, MO (rated EF3)
1750793763097.png1750793920235.png1750794003723.png1750794059142.png


11. 05/19 Grinnell, KS (rated EF3)
1750794253425.png1750794278661.png
1750794332837.jpeg1750794349000.jpeg
1750794358170.jpeg

12. 05/17 Marion, IL (rated EF4)
13. 05/17 Somerset/London (rated EF4)

cont....
 

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AJS said:
I am not unconfident in saying that the Grinnell, KS tornado 100% reached EF5 strength in open fields. @Western_KS_Wx posted some unreal photos of vegetation damage and ground scouring that only occurs in upper echelon tornadoes. The damage in Grinnell imo was pretty impressive too.
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Yup. Of all the tornadoes so far this year, Grinnell is the only one that I flat out rated EF5.
 
Lake Martin EF4 said:
Jametown, ND on 6/20 was also probably violent based on some rather nasty vehicle damage. Possibly even EF5, though I wish the field it hit wasn't already plowed.

On the contrary, tornadoes such as Des Arc, St. Louis, and more were probably not violent.
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St. Louis was definitely pushing it, and quite a bit outside the box. It did do $1.7 billion in damage though. That's a lot of damage. Some might even call it a whole four of damage. Hence EF4.

AJS said:
I am not unconfident in saying that the Grinnell, KS tornado 100% reached EF5 strength in open fields. @Western_KS_Wx posted some unreal photos of vegetation damage and ground scouring that only occurs in upper echelon tornadoes. The damage in Grinnell imo was pretty impressive too.
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I was trying to remember who posted that! I didn't include it in my post because you kind of have to see all the pictures together to understand the intensity of that scouring. @Western_KS_Wx did you ever email those pics to NWS Goodland?

In case anyone was wondering why it got a 140 mph rating, here's your answer from this article.
The tornado that tore through the western Kansas town of Grinnell has been officially rated an EF-3 by the National Weather Service. A damage survey team, including meteorologist and forensic engineer Tim Marshall, conducted the assessment alongside staff from the NWS office in Goodland.

The EF-3 rating was based on damage to 15 to 20 homes, specifically those with the most severe destruction.

“EF-3 would be where the roof has gone and some exterior walls are gone, so that all you have is the interior part of the house left,” Marshall explained.

He described a tight-knit community that acted quickly to protect each other and begin recovery.

“People were waiting for the insurance adjusters to show up so they could immediately begin cleanup. In fact, cleanup was rapidly underway when I was there,” he said.

According to Marshall, the tornado followed a classic Kansas pattern.

“It was a pretty wide tornado south of the interstate. And then as it got closer to the town, it narrowed up, you know, like a cylinder, and then roped out just north of town.”
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Yeah.... that bolded section sure does describe the damage in Grinnell, Tim. For sure... Definitely no slabbed, or completely demolished homes anywhere.. It's certainly not another example of Mr. Marshall misrepresenting the facts. No sir.
 
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