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Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

Apparently people now think Joplin was only “borderline EF5” which is absurd.
That's been a foolishness for years. Nothing new. A very dumb study suggested so long ago
Courtesy of this thread and Significant Tornado Events, every single EF5 has been shown to be extremely violent, and I swear I have seen an argument that “this EF5 is more violent than you thought” which, while fair, suggests that every EF5 that has been rated was higher than the baseline required to reach the rating. If that’s the case, then what tornadoes would you guys consider a baseline EF5? There has to be at least one in my eyes considering that we have 9 rated ones and a couple EF4s that should have been rated higher. After seeing the most recent imagery of Greensburg, Joplin to me became the “baseline” EF5, and that isn’t me downplaying the strength of the tornado at all because I’ve seen a lot of extremely impressive imagery from Joplin.
 
It is indubitably true that we haven't had a storm since Moore 2013 with its combination of intensity and impact on a heavily populated area. It is also true that it will happen again.

Courtesy of this thread and Significant Tornado Events, every single EF5 has been shown to be extremely violent, and I swear I have seen an argument that “this EF5 is more violent than you thought” which, while fair, suggests that every EF5 that has been rated was higher than the baseline required to reach the rating. If that’s the case, then what tornadoes would you guys consider a baseline EF5? There has to be at least one in my eyes considering that we have 9 rated ones and a couple EF4s that should have been rated higher. After seeing the most recent imagery of Greensburg, Joplin to me became the “baseline” EF5, and that isn’t me downplaying the strength of the tornado at all because I’ve seen a lot of extremely impressive imagery from Joplin.
I think Joplin really is a lot more violent than people think it is. Some of the contextual damage produced from that monster was about as high end as it gets. I mean, there’s one area throughout Joplin where trees are COMPLETELY debarked. Like as thoroughly debarked as they can get.
 
My cynical self is wondering if the higher end EF4s we've seen in these outbreaks were given their ratings simply for model/forecast verification, and all the other tornadoes are rated with the typical scrutiny. Does anyone know how the analogs pulled with soundings are classified? What is the threshold between the "tornado"(red) and "PDS tornado" (pink) labels?

It's probably pointless conjecture, but I'm still curious.
modified.png
for the whole tornado , pds tornado hazards , my opinion is ... it would be a useful thing to have if it was modified a bit.

ive seen multiple PDS TOR with nothing ever forming , and the main issue i notice with them events is the K index being under 20.

there is also a capping issue i would like to call it ... no not the cap but as in , sometimes the RH is at 100% and the LCL at 0 meters while having 0 CIN.

only one of these takes into account moister , and its pointless if it can use the others like pds , that has no moister....

its to note that 90% of all famous tornadoes happen in events that had...
MLCIN at -2 to -60
MLLCL at 200 to 1800 Meters
overall RH at 50 to 98%

the image i just posted is the official rules of the hazard list , however the red numbers is what i suggest should be changed , and the black num/letters is what i suggest should be added.

again there is no parameter thread to talk about at this moment.

but the biggest issues with parameters is the whole moister and the whole lack of limiting of parameters (as in overflowing on one parameter that makes the composite parameter seem high just cause one thing is too extreme)
 
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I think Joplin really is a lot more violent than people think it is. Some of the contextual damage produced from that monster was about as high end as it gets. I mean, there’s one area throughout Joplin where trees are COMPLETELY debarked. Like as thoroughly debarked as they can get.
Joplin also sucked the asphalt out of several large parking lots. Crumbling them to pieces.
 
Joplin also sucked the asphalt out of several large parking lots. Crumbling them to pieces.
Excuse my words, but D*mn. Joplin was incredibly violent if it did that. What was the rating for Joplin?
 
Courtesy of this thread and Significant Tornado Events, every single EF5 has been shown to be extremely violent, and I swear I have seen an argument that “this EF5 is more violent than you thought” which, while fair, suggests that every EF5 that has been rated was higher than the baseline required to reach the rating. If that’s the case, then what tornadoes would you guys consider a baseline EF5? There has to be at least one in my eyes considering that we have 9 rated ones and a couple EF4s that should have been rated higher. After seeing the most recent imagery of Greensburg, Joplin to me became the “baseline” EF5, and that isn’t me downplaying the strength of the tornado at all because I’ve seen a lot of extremely impressive imagery from Joplin.
Honestly, Rochelle was close to my idea of an entry level F5ish tornado. It was far from the strongest tornado imaginable. But it had an instance of "Extraordinary phenomena " (that sidewalk), slabbed and swept away multiple reasonably well built homes, and produced various instances of extreme if not Jarrell-level devastation. To me, that is an entry level EF5 by the description of the scale.

For an actual EF5 example, I struggle to think of one. Philadelphia? An old school F5 that fits would be one like Hesston, probably.

Not every EF5 has to rip the crap out of continuously welded rail line like Chapman....oh wait I forgot, that was allegedly an EF4.
 
If Joplin was not an EF5, then I truly have no idea what a true EF5 tornado is. Joplin had some of the worst damage I had ever seen after a tornado.

I will say if Hackleburg did not happen during the Super Outbreak of 2011, I cannot confidentally say that it would still be rated an EF5 today, mainly because of the structures and houses, and how they may have been built.
 
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If Joplin was not an EF5, then I truly have no idea what a true EF5 tornado is. Joplin had some of the worst damage I had ever seen after a tornado.

I will say if Hackleburg did not happen during the Super Outbreak of 2011, I cannot confidentally say that it would still be rated an EF5 today, mainly because of the structures and houses, and how they may have been built.
Agreed. Hackleburg was essentially the Mayfield of its day.
 
There's no video of it, but looking at aerial imagery you can see it going from weak tree damage to extreme ground scouring/trenching within a dozen yards
I thought I saw one of it over the river, which was shortly before it drilled into the earth? Here, I have a photo but need more time to find the exact video:
1748025199432.png
 
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