Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

[AJS]

I’m curious if this is a situation where the house was a rental and Tim spoke to the occupant. From the outset, someone here is lying, but maybe there’s more nuance here.

Regardless of this, the pictures of damaged homes with the sarcastic comments is disgusting. I really hope the owners gave him permissions to post these on socials, and I’m almost positive they would have said No if they knew of the sarcastic captions he would put on there. NWS surveyors won’t post pictures on social media unless given permission and I’m 100% sure it wouldn’t contain dismissive remarks like this.

Let’s face it, 99.9999% of homes in America will never be impacted by a tornado. Tim getting his panties in a bunch that every single house he comes across isn’t built to above-standard-code especially when he’s surveying in rural America just shows how out of touch he is. I have absolutely lost a ton of respect for him over the past few years, independent of his damage surveys.

I don’t want to sound like i’m assuming things right now, but based on how he acts on his posts it seems like his ego is a bit too big sometimes and displays it sometimes in disrespectful ways. Almost like he knows it all sometimes. I could be wrong though.

 

[AJS]

I mean, how he spoke to his wife in his Bridge Creek 1999 video straight up crossed into A-Hole territory. I mean what did he expect? There’s a violent tornado barreling toward them. Of course she’s gonna be scared.

 

[Grand Poo Bah]

I’m curious if this is a situation where the house was a rental and Tim spoke to the occupant. From the outset, someone here is lying, but maybe there’s more nuance here.

I've verified the house was unfinished and no one was living in it.

 

[AJS]

I've verified the house was unfinished and no one was living in it.

If this is actually true, it makes me think less than him.

 

[ColdFront]

I've verified the house was unfinished and no one was living in it.

That’s interesting. So who is the man he spoke to? Or claimed to at least? I mean, there could have been a lot of miscommunication here, and I’m not trying to “angry mob” Marshall.

However, his fans or sycophants, that are putting “laughing” emojis at his sarcastic comments on the damage to people’s homes suck.

 

[Grand Poo Bah]

That’s interesting. So who is the man he spoke to? Or claimed to at least?

A figment of his imagination created for likes on social media by the looks of it.

 

[ColdFront]

A figment of his imagination created for likes on social media by the looks of it.

How were you able to confirm no one was living In the house? Not calling you out or saying you’re lying, but if this is all true then this is a really bad look for Marshall and he deserves the people piling on him

 

[Grand Poo Bah]

How were you able to confirm no one was living In the house? Not calling you out or saying you’re lying, but if this is all true then this is a really bad look for Marshall and he deserves the people piling on him

From her and her friends other comments on her post. The house was left unfinished and unlivable when her husband died in 2023. I don't think anyone from here should message her asking for more details than that either. But I do think the NWS absolutely needs to investigate.

 

[KevinH]

Random question…

Has there ever been any study or effort (for the HECK of it), to try and rerate the tornadoes of the 1974 outbreak?

I have been curious to know how they would be rated by TODAY’S standards.

 

[slenker]

Random question…

Has there ever been any study or effort (for the HECK of it), to try and rerate the tornadoes of the 1974 outbreak?

I have been curious to know how they would be rated by TODAY’S standards.

I'm not sure, but Brandenburg and Guin would surely be rated EF5, even by today's standards I would imagine. Xenia and the second Tanner tornado would have probably been given an EF4 rating. I'm not so sure about the other F5s though.

 

[ColdFront]

I'm not sure, but Brandenburg and Guin would surely be rated EF5, even by today's standards I would imagine. Xenia and the second Tanner tornado would have probably been given an EF4 rating. I'm not so sure about the other F5s though.

Hot Takes incoming:

Sayler park would be an EF3 to Low End EF4 candidate. DePauw was so rural that it most likely would be an EF4 too. It never probably hit anything substantially well built that would pass muster today.

You would be hard pressed to find well built homes in the south, especially in the areas near Guin. While Guin should be a slam dunk, I really don’t know if it gets a 5 post-2013 EF scale just because of the construction quality impacted. You also had sharp damage gradients that any John Robinson type would use to justify not giving it a 5.


Xenia MAY get a 5 today.


To me, Brandenburg would be your almost sure EF5. Comparing historical outbreaks to today is now just a excrement sandwich, so it doesn’t really matter anyway.

 

[jiharris0220]

Hot Takes incoming:

Sayler park would be an EF3 to Low End EF4 candidate. DePauw was so rural that it most likely would be an EF4 too. It never probably hit anything substantially well built that would pass muster today.

You would be hard pressed to find well built homes in the south, especially in the areas near Guin. While Guin should be a slam dunk, I really don’t know if it gets a 5 post-2013 EF scale just because of the construction quality impacted. You also had sharp damage gradients that any John Robinson type would use to justify not giving it a 5.


Xenia MAY get a 5 today.


To me, Brandenburg would be your almost sure EF5. Comparing historical outbreaks to today is now just a excrement sandwich, so it doesn’t really matter anyway.

I’m probably going to get dragged for saying this.

But I honestly don’t see any F5 tornadoes from the 1974 outbreak being rated ef5 post 2013.

Brandenburg has the best chance, but I have not seen any other F5 tornadoes that day who have slabbed any structures that would be considered “superior construction” nowadays.

The homes Xenia slabbed were all poorly anchored and the only ef5 damage it did was all contextual.

Same thing with Guin, I wouldn’t be surprised if it did some high end ef5 contextual damage but none of the structures in Guin looked even remotely close to be classified as an ef5 DI.

 

[ColdFront]

I’m probably going to get dragged for saying this.

But I honestly don’t see any F5 tornadoes from the 1974 outbreak being rated ef5 post 2013.

Brandenburg has the best chance, but I have not seen any other F5 tornadoes that day who have slabbed any structures that would be considered “superior construction” nowadays.

The homes Xenia slabbed were all poorly anchored and the only ef5 damage it did was all contextual.

Well, I whole heartedly agree with you, so if you get dragged I will too.

 

[TH2002]

Comparing historical outbreaks to today is now just a excrement sandwich

…and we’re all gonna have to take a bite.

 

[joshoctober16]

I’m probably going to get dragged for saying this.

But I honestly don’t see any F5 tornadoes from the 1974 outbreak being rated ef5 post 2013.

Brandenburg has the best chance, but I have not seen any other F5 tornadoes that day who have slabbed any structures that would be considered “superior construction” nowadays.

The homes Xenia slabbed were all poorly anchored and the only ef5 damage it did was all contextual.

Same thing with Guin, I wouldn’t be surprised if it did some high end ef5 contextual damage but none of the structures in Guin looked even remotely close to be classified as an ef5 DI.

NWS would of likely rate them like this for post 2013

DePauw - Martinsburg - Daisy Hill F5 April 1974 : 195 mph
Tanner(2) - Hazel Green F5 April 1974 : 195 mph
Cincinnati - Sayler Park F5 April 1974 : 195 mph
Guin - Delmar F5+ April 1974 : 195 mph
Tanner(1) - Mount hope - Moulton - Harvest F5 April 1974 : 195 mph
Brandenburg F5 April 1974 : 200 mph
Xenia F5+ April 1974 : 200 mph

its to note that Udall F5 of 1955 would not be rated EF5 today
one paper that i lost stated bridge creek 1999 would be rated EF4 200 MPH ....

honestly i think almost no F5 has a chance....
ones to note (along with their MPH) that might are
Tupelo F5 April 1936 : 205 mph
Barneveld F5 June 1984 : 205 mph
Haysville - Andover F5+ April 1991 : 205 mph
Lawrence County April F5 1998 : 205 mph
Bridge creek - Newcastle - Moore F5+ May 1999 : 205 mph

and then suddenly...

Marion County - Barnes F4+ July 2004 : 210 mph

Marion County F4 was almost rated F5 but wasn't because of its slow speed , however there were no structures for it to use as (DEBRIS HIT THE HOME) and the ground scouring was more then 200+ yards wide.... i dont think they could use the tree standing nearby reason with this... , it also threw a safe like Rainsville did.

but then again there was that one paper that stated 200 mph would be the rating of bridge creek....

 

[AJS]

NWS would of likely rate them like this for post 2013

DePauw - Martinsburg - Daisy Hill F5 April 1974 : 195 mph
Tanner(2) - Hazel Green F5 April 1974 : 195 mph
Cincinnati - Sayler Park F5 April 1974 : 195 mph
Guin - Delmar F5+ April 1974 : 195 mph
Tanner(1) - Mount hope - Moulton - Harvest F5 April 1974 : 195 mph
Brandenburg F5 April 1974 : 200 mph
Xenia F5+ April 1974 : 200 mph

its to note that Udall F5 of 1955 would not be rated EF5 today
one paper that i lost stated bridge creek 1999 would be rated EF4 200 MPH ....

honestly i think almost no F5 has a chance....
ones to note (along with their MPH) that might are
Tupelo F5 April 1936 : 205 mph
Barneveld F5 June 1984 : 205 mph
Haysville - Andover F5+ April 1991 : 205 mph
Lawrence County April F5 1998 : 205 mph
Bridge creek - Newcastle - Moore F5+ May 1999 : 205 mph

and then suddenly...

Marion County - Barnes F4+ July 2004 : 210 mph

Marion County F4 was almost rated F5 but wasn't because of its slow speed , however there were no structures for it to use as (DEBRIS HIT THE HOME) and the ground scouring was more then 200+ yards wide.... i dont think they could use the tree standing nearby reason with this... , it also threw a safe like Rainsville did.

but then again there was that one paper that stated 200 mph would be the rating of bridge creek....

I can say with confidence that Bridge Creek/Moore 1999 would still be rated EF5 even today.

 

[Grand Poo Bah]

View attachment 36897View attachment 36898View attachment 36899View attachment 36900View attachment 36901View attachment 36902View attachment 36903

View attachment 36905
These pictures really never cease to amaze me and I truly believe they capture the remarkable intensity the tornado reached in this area.

Finally got a chance to take a better look at these pics on a bigger screen, and I gotta say I'm absolutely blown away This is the perfect example of houses that weren't just blown over. The lack of debris anywhere in sight tells me the houses were lifted whole and tossed long distances. Every contextual indicator you could possibly ask for is present too.

I see insane ground scouring and entirely stripped trees (on the ground) here:



Does anyone know where this pic was taken? It looks like it could be from one of the fields directly adjacent to this neighborhood.
This trenching was found in Cayce, Kentucky. Early in the tornadoes path, before it hit Mayfield.



I see possible evidence of trenching here:



That evidence is further supported from this alternate angle, where you can see the ripped up clumps of dirt on the driveway.



I'm not even sure where this house (circled) came from! I drew arrows next to contextuals that indicate wind direction as the tornado passed over and they aren't saying the debris is from the slab directly above:



Here's another angle... There are no other houses in sight. This indicates large chunks of this home were carried a half mile or more. The smaller circle up top could be our trenching. The tree lines in the distance of both photos appear to match, but no way to say for sure. I'll look in the DAT and see if I can find anything.



I've seen a lot of tornado damage photos over the last 20 years, and I gotta say, this is the most impressive damage I've ever seen in my life. I'm dumbfounded it wasn't rated EF5. From my seat, it looks like the homes that were anchored were severely granulated and wind-rowed, and the houses without anchors are literally just gone. No trace. They're in the Land of Oz.

 

[Grand Poo Bah]

I can say with confidence that Bridge Creek/Moore 1999 would still be rated EF5 even today.

I can say with newfound confidence, it would honestly depend on the office doing the survey. @buckeye05 has endorsed the Norman WFO, so I gotta agree it'd probably still be rated EF5 if the same damage happened it the same place today.

 

[AJS]

Finally got a chance to take a better look at these pics on a bigger screen, and I gotta say I'm absolutely blown away This is the perfect example of houses that weren't just blown over. The lack of debris anywhere in sight tells me the houses were lifted whole and tossed long distances. Every contextual indicator you could possibly ask for is present too.

I see insane ground scouring and entirely stripped trees (on the ground) here:

View attachment 37265

Does anyone know where this pic was taken? It looks like it could be from one of the fields directly adjacent to this neighborhood.

View attachment 37268

I see possible evidence of trenching here:

View attachment 37266

That evidence is further supported from this alternate angle, where you can see the ripped up clumps of dirt on the driveway.

View attachment 37267

I'm not even sure where this house (circled) came from! I drew arrows next to contextuals that indicate wind direction as the tornado passed over and they aren't saying the debris is from the slab directly above:

View attachment 37270

Here's another angle... There are no other houses in sight. This indicates large chunks of this home were carried a half mile or more. The smaller circle up top could be our trenching. The tree lines in the distance of both photos appear to match, but no way to say for sure. I'll look in the DAT and see if I can find anything.

View attachment 37271

I've seen a lot of tornado damage photos over the last 20 years, and I gotta say, this is the most impressive damage I've ever seen in my life. I'm dumbfounded it wasn't rated EF5. From my seat, it looks like the homes that were anchored were severely granulated and wind-rowed, and the houses without anchors are literally just gone. No trace. They're in the Land of Oz.

The damage in Bremen was truly some of the most remarkable damage i’ve seen. But the high end EF4 rating was the right call due to the piss poor quality of construction in this area. If we had the construction quality from Cambridge Shores combined with the Bremen contextual damage, it would be a no brainer EF5.

 

[Grand Poo Bah]

The damage in Bremen was truly some of the most remarkable damage i’ve seen. But the high end EF4 rating was the right call due to the piss poor quality of construction in this area. If we had the construction quality from Cambridge Shores combined with the Bremen contextual damage, it would be a no brainer EF5.

I believe poor anchoring is somewhat overridden when an strong framed house is tossed whole.