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Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

Grand Poo Bah said:
Also, earlier in the thread someone mentioned an image of Smithville being the most impressive damage photo they've ever seen. I agreed back then, but I keep thinking about these photos from the Mayfield tornado, and the more I look at them the more impressed I am.

Take note of how easily distinguishable the tire tracks from a gator or golf cart that was driving around are. There aren't any bulldozer tracks, which means no clean up has been done in this photo.

View attachment 36879

This photo is also from early in the tornado's path (Buckeye, AR).

View attachment 36884

edit:
accidentally posted a photo from the Bassfield tornado. corrected now.
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That damage from Bremen is genuinely some of the most impressive contextual damage i’ve seen. I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again. If there had been a home built to the required standard needed for an EF5 rating, this would’ve broken the “ drought. “
 
I think a lot of the issue with the EF scale is that it is a post-hoc analysis -- no other major natural disaster is rated based on the damage it does, and the idea is actually silly once you think about it. It's more for insurance companies and structural engineers than it is for the general public or historical archival purposes.

I think something like a Tornado Severity Index would be better. Keep the EF scale for post-hoc analysis and use for insurance companies and whatnot, but introduce the TSI as a real-time add-on to warnings of confirmed tornadoes occurring at a given time. The public latches on to the 1-5 category nomenclature (look at hurricanes for instance), so this would probably resonate well. It correlates but doesn't always correspond to an EF rating since damage could vary widely based on other parameters other than real-time indicators.

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Grand Poo Bah said:
Also, earlier in the thread someone mentioned an image of Smithville being the most impressive damage photo they've ever seen. I agreed back then, but I keep thinking about these photos from the Mayfield tornado, and the more I look at them the more impressed I am.

Take note of how easily distinguishable the tire tracks from a gator or golf cart that was driving around are. There aren't any bulldozer tracks, which means no clean up has been done in this photo.

View attachment 36879

This photo is also from early in the tornado's path (Buckeye, AR).

View attachment 36884

edit:
accidentally posted a photo from the Bassfield tornado. corrected now.
Click to expand...
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IMG_4149.jpeg
These pictures really never cease to amaze me and I truly believe they capture the remarkable intensity the tornado reached in this area.
 

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A resident in Bremen also managed to capture what is in my opinion, one of the most eerie, creepy, iconic, and terrifying tornado videos of all time.

Just the thought of looking out your back door and seeing a demon in the darkness like that being illuminated by lightning sends shivers down my spine.
 
So in my noobiness, with the WRF-ARW model, I accidentally wrote it to a non-existent folder (and WRF can't create folders on its own), so my entire run was wasted. Haha, so I'm just running 18z GFS initial conditions and hopefully I'll have some output for Sunday before midnight lol
 
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say home surveying has become tasteless and the level of scrutiny being put on people who just lost everything unnecessary. Tim's recent posts have really rubbed me the wrong way. Here's a response from one of the homeowners. We desperately need some serious change.

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Grand Poo Bah said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say home surveying has become tasteless and the level of scrutiny being put on people who just lost everything unnecessary. Tim's recent posts have really rubbed me the wrong way. Here's a response from one of the homeowners. We desperately need some serious change.

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Prettt tasteless thing to say by Tim Marshall. I get truth hurts, but amidst a time of loss isn’t the time to make such a comment. -2 respect for Tim.
 
Tanner said:
Prettt tasteless thing to say by Tim Marshall. I get truth hurts, but amidst a time of loss isn’t the time to make such a comment. -2 respect for Tim.
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It’s not exactly shocking. Brilliant guy, but Tim has always came across as an a**hole. Just watch his home video of the bridge creek 5/3/99 tornado and listen to the way he speaks to his then-wife. That’s documented on video. I really don’t care for him. Just have one look at some of his Facebook replies, guy’s conduct isn’t exactly pristine.

My opinion of him has nothing to do with his ratings btw.
 
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The look of smug dissapointment, the description of houses as "not healthy", the descriptions of construction as "useless", "ridiculous", and "say what?" Just not valuable insight at all, and he's not who the NWS should have representing anything, especially not how we rate tornadoes.

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Wasn't sure whether to post this in the SigTor thread or here, but anyways...

Not related to the current discussion, but if anyone needed more proof that Joplin caused true EF5 damage, here you go. Directly SE of the St. Paul's United Methodist Church on West 26th Street, a pair of anchor bolted homes were swept away.

Home #1:
Joplin-EF5-damage-bolts.jpg

Home #2:
Joplin-EF5-damage-slab.jpg

Same home, but with improved contrast and some of the bolts circled:
Joplin-EF5-damage-slab2.jpg

Aerial of the two slabs:
Joplin-EF5-slabs-aerial.jpg

These were the homes before the tornado.
Joplin-EF5-damage-slab-before.jpg
 
Grand Poo Bah said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say home surveying has become tasteless and the level of scrutiny being put on people who just lost everything unnecessary. Tim's recent posts have really rubbed me the wrong way. Here's a response from one of the homeowners. We desperately need some serious change.

View attachment 36971
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This is pretty gross. Hell, they built a safe room, they were on the right track. Think before you say something that could come across the wrong way.
 
Grand Poo Bah said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say home surveying has become tasteless and the level of scrutiny being put on people who just lost everything unnecessary. Tim's recent posts have really rubbed me the wrong way. Here's a response from one of the homeowners. We desperately need some serious change.

View attachment 36971
Click to expand...

Is it just me or does this make it look like Tim made up his story and the house was only half built when it was hit? I get the person claiming to be the owner could be lying as well, but the implications if she's not are pretty damn serious. The post has over 1500 shares so I won't be able to verify her identity for a while. I saw it posted on Reddit.

Edit:

Tim's post is basically viral now with 1700 shares. found the homeowner. Her post is public and anyone can find it so I won't censor her name. She's devasted. Her and others reached out to him and he has since turned off comments on his posts but hasn't deleted or rescinded any of his own tasteless comments.

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TH2002 said:
Wasn't sure whether to post this in the SigTor thread or here, but anyways...

Not related to the current discussion, but if anyone needed more proof that Joplin caused true EF5 damage, here you go. Directly SE of the St. Paul's United Methodist Church on West 26th Street, a pair of anchor bolted homes were swept away.

Home #1:
View attachment 36986

Home #2:
View attachment 36996

Same home, but with improved contrast and some of the bolts circled:
View attachment 36994

Aerial of the two slabs:
View attachment 37000

These were the homes before the tornado.
View attachment 37034
Click to expand...
These are amazing photos. Great find. Joplin is my #1 nightmare fuel tornado just from the overall destruction and context of it all (dropping in the middle of town without warning), but I had never actually seen fully clean slabs from it like this before. The damage it did to the hospital's building envelope was incredible as well. My goodness. Almost makes you understand how the bar for EF5 got so high. Almost..
 
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Grand Poo Bah said:
Is it just me or does this make it look like Tim made up his story and the house was only half built when it was hit? I get the person claiming to be the owner could be lying as well, but the implications if she's not are pretty damn serious. The post has over 1500 shares so I won't be able to verify her identity for a while. I saw it posted on Reddit.
Click to expand...
I’m curious if this is a situation where the house was a rental and Tim spoke to the occupant. From the outset, someone here is lying, but maybe there’s more nuance here.

Regardless of this, the pictures of damaged homes with the sarcastic comments is disgusting. I really hope the owners gave him permissions to post these on socials, and I’m almost positive they would have said No if they knew of the sarcastic captions he would put on there. NWS surveyors won’t post pictures on social media unless given permission and I’m 100% sure it wouldn’t contain dismissive remarks like this.

Let’s face it, 99.9999% of homes in America will never be impacted by a tornado. Tim getting his panties in a bunch that every single house he comes across isn’t built to above-standard-code especially when he’s surveying in rural America just shows how out of touch he is. I have absolutely lost a ton of respect for him over the past few years, independent of his damage surveys.
 
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