tornado examiner
Member
Cactus 117 really is an infinitely easier feat to say “yeah this is objectively an EF5 damage indicator.” compared to enderlin. Which is still solid, but not super high end.
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Union
Member
Ohh also another possible explanation I've seen of this, the marks not matching the length of the car, is that the markings were made by the fittings on the top and bottom of the car hitting the ground every time it made a complete rotation, which aren't exactly on the ends of the car, which would explain the gaps in the holes throughout the path, but they don't all line up and the ends are still pushed in a good bit so I don't think it fully explains it, but one of the more interesting hypothesis I've seen
Union
Member
Yeah I heavily agree, Cactus also had so many more indicators of the highest end intensity comparatively, lofting and destruction of dozens of cars for nearly a mile I believe, multi ton pieces of scrap rolled across the landscape for nearly 2 miles (I believe), complete destruction of large trees in Walking Farm and Calumet, ground was absolutely plastered with dirt and mud at least in Walling and Calumet, insane crop damage to mature winter wheat, I mean it's just the most slam dunk it can get imo. Walling Farm and Calumet Industries were on the same street as Cactus btw but I assume u know that just wanted to say
tornado examiner
Member
Can we point out how clear it is that the other tanker cars in that very much did go airborne for a short bit though? For certain area’s immediately next to the tracks lack gouges and I think the wheel bogies may indicate something like this too. I wish I had a drawing tool that I could make my point with.
The grassy part doesn’t have any noticeable gouges accept for one big hole which confuses me,
Gosh I wish I could articulate what I'm seeing.
The grassy part doesn’t have any noticeable gouges accept for one big hole which confuses me,
Gosh I wish I could articulate what I'm seeing.
Union
Member
I think I know what u mean, the last car still attached does seem like it went airborne for at least a little bit, as I think the one rolled out into the field did, but they also then got laid back down and dragged the rest of the way, for the other 2 cars tho I can see some dragging even in the grass. Still according to Miller et al. 50m or more of lofting, completely off the ground with 0 touches of a large compact object (such as these cars) is EF5 indicative, though I don't think this distance reaches that, once again not saying it's *not* EF5, but I think this always good to have these discussions.
Also, I've seen some ppl try to explain the markings in the fields as the wheels of the railcar falling off and making them (they go on for way too long), then somehow they randomly got shoved backwards back to the tracks (that wouldn't happen) and for the last point, the wheels come off way before the car is in the field, that's just how they're connected, car falls over, most of the time the wheels aren't staying.
tornado examiner
Member
They wouldn’t revise it back down to EF4 after three months of analysis from several experts Because of how ambiguous and simplified the calculations are right?
Union
Member
I think it was an EF5 strength tornado, what it did and the truth of what is needed to do it, a lot more confusing. Do I think it will get downgraded, no. Do I think unless other examples of this type of damage are looked into with the same amount of detail, past or future, that this is a strange rating, yea kinda.
Kinda on the fence, it's just such a weird time to implement this stuff but with such an extreme example I kinda get it, but there are real things to be talked about that is "wrong" with the calculations done.
In terms of non-standard EF5 DIs, I like the idea but the only other ones we have are Philadelphia (not an EF5 imo) and Piedmont (most clear EF5 you can get really)
Union
Member
No definitely not, not after all this time, they've already come to the conclusion that it's fine they're this way, stuff was probably figured out a month before it got officially upgraded.
Kds86z
Member
joshoctober16
Member
well there is finally some proof that it was rolled , however if rolling counts as EF5 then there is going to be a lot more to upgrade.
tornado examiner
Member
It was 36 tons and not perfectly cylindrical….
joshoctober16
Member
Tuscaloosa threw or rolled train cars over 120 meters while they were 35 to 36 tones.
pretty sure this tornado should be upgraded since it did the same type of damage.
Shakespeare 2016
Member
Thank You!! The Greensburg tornado was much stronger than I initially thought.