• Welcome to TalkWeather!
    We would love for you to become a part of our community.
    Take a moment to look around and join the discussion.
    CLICK HERE TO JOIN TALKWEATHER

COVID-19 detected in United States (3 Viewers)

Evan

Member
2021 Supporter
Messages
1,983
Reaction score
1,000
Location
McCalla, AL
I'll add one other point. The UK, France, Italy, Portugal, Spain, and other peer countries have similar per capita death rates to the United States. I think that's pretty good evidence to show that our death rates aren't out of line with what is being reported elsewhere in countries who have a similar level of medical care to our own.
 

Jacob

Member
Messages
916
Reaction score
455
Location
Moody, AL
I think your criticism is somewhat valid but your issue with reporting standards really comes from two different systems doing two different things. VAERS is meant to capture any adverse event that occurs after a vaccination is given.

Here's a good thread from a Conservative doctor on how VAERS functions and why that is:


In contrast, COVID death reporting is much more complex system. Death certificates filled out by doctors are a primary source but so are coroner/ME death certificates for people who die outside of a medical facility or experienced an unexplained death. Adding to that, local and state health departments play a role by reporting into NNDSS. The CDC actually maintains "two sets of books" so to speak but only one is official. The other set is meant to more rapidly spot trends and be more up-to-date.


I definitely don't think arguments that COVID deaths are being over-counted are convincing primarily because of how scant testing was for a significant period of time and the fact that so many people die at home and coroners/MEs vary on how they test for COVID in those cases. If anything, I think a strong argument can be made that coroner/ME reporting in most areas has undercounted deaths especially during localized COVID surges.

Additionally, I think doctors really do try very hard to accurately report the cause of death of any patient they're responsible for. Unless you believe the various conspiracies about doctors and hospitals being incentivized to bump up COVID deaths, I think any argument about the accuracy of death certificates coming out of healthcare facilities has to acknowledge there's likely been both over-counting and under-counting simply because doctors are humans, COVID is a novel disease, and healthcare facilities have struggled with being overwhelmed by patients, a lack of testing, and overworked which has surely led to errors. Ultimately, I would think think any variance is largely balanced out.

I understand skepticism toward the CDC given many of their recent policy decisions but keep in mind that the scientists who collect and analyze data surrounding COVID. deaths are completely seperate personnel. There's been no substantial change in death reporting or excess death analysis between the Trump admin and the Biden admin although on the policy side we've seen major changes. I know of no reputable public health official or epidemiologist who has claimed that the death reporting system is getting it wrong. Some of those people are true data geeks and if they found a flaw you can bet they'd shout it from the rooftops.

I don't think there's any serious reason to doubt the number of reported deaths, and as the AAMC article lays out there's constant refinement and analysis to try to get to the most accurate number possible.

VAERS is meant to collect every adverse event or death that can possibly be collected and then each event is carefully analyzed. I think a similar level of scrutiny is being applied to the data collected and analyzed by VAERS and COVID death reporting even though they obviously have substantial variance in how they function and how the system are designed.

I think you read too much into what I was saying, my post was made with no thought of VAERS, just how much different standards are for a COVID death vs. a COVID vaccine death.

I don't know if there was overcounting in hospital settings, but the incentive certainly was there from a monetary perspective. Hospitals were hemorrhaging money across the country for most of 2020, and the government provided reimbursement for COVID patients/COVID deaths. That's not conspiracy to point out that system existed. I don't have any data that would prove anything nefarious went on with their count of deaths, so it's not something I spend much time talking about.

I think there is a decent amount of over-counting in certain settings like nursing homes, but overall I don't think it is a significantly substantial amount. Whether it is or isn't, I don't have any data that supports it either way, which is the main reason I don't bring it up much.
 

Jacob

Member
Messages
916
Reaction score
455
Location
Moody, AL
I'll add one other point. The UK, France, Italy, Portugal, Spain, and other peer countries have similar per capita death rates to the United States. I think that's pretty good evidence to show that our death rates aren't out of line with what is being reported elsewhere in countries who have a similar level of medical care to our own.

I don't really disagree with this point at all, though much of Europe used the same 30/60 day standard that the US did.
 

Matthew70

Guest
Messages
91
Reaction score
5
Location
Smyrna,TN
Everything the media and govt. say and tell us is true. Trust the science. Whatever we all have our opinions and thoughts. That’s what makes America great freedom of choice. I choose to wait on the vaccine. Gonna keep living the way I and all those I’m around have since last May. We didn’t wear a mask then not going to change now. Im moving on from this subject.
 

maroonedinhsv

Member
Messages
511
Reaction score
375
Location
Harvest, AL
Everything the media and govt. say and tell us is true. Trust the science. Whatever we all have our opinions and thoughts. That’s what makes America great freedom of choice. I choose to wait on the vaccine. Gonna keep living the way I and all those I’m around have since last May. We didn’t wear a mask then not going to change now. Im moving on from this subject.
Bye.
 

Matthew70

Guest
Messages
91
Reaction score
5
Location
Smyrna,TN
While your gloating about your vaccine and pounding your chest here is an example of what happens to some that take the vaccine because people like you scream the vaccine is safe. Well why don’t you send some money to this family because their medical bills are all on them. Why? Because the vaccine makers are not responsible. Yes you and your family had no issues but many are not so fortunate. Right now you and your family are guinea pigs until the clinical trials are over. So don’t be so certain you are not going to have issues from the vaccine in the future. Karma has a way of coming around. Also I guess she’s not real right? There is 2 sides to this virus. Death and medical issues from Covid and death and and medical issues from the vaccines.
 

Attachments

  • D444D66D-2A9D-4C1F-8775-AF593545AA0A.jpeg
    D444D66D-2A9D-4C1F-8775-AF593545AA0A.jpeg
    142.2 KB · Views: 0
  • 4100559B-46C3-4363-8633-1F37EF5B96CD.jpeg
    4100559B-46C3-4363-8633-1F37EF5B96CD.jpeg
    146.7 KB · Views: 0
  • CE8591F1-4805-463F-80BE-2F92A89083BE.jpeg
    CE8591F1-4805-463F-80BE-2F92A89083BE.jpeg
    159.3 KB · Views: 0
  • AB889A7A-4598-40A7-8B27-38A5CE72A414.jpeg
    AB889A7A-4598-40A7-8B27-38A5CE72A414.jpeg
    104.3 KB · Views: 0

maroonedinhsv

Member
Messages
511
Reaction score
375
Location
Harvest, AL
Everything the media and govt. say and tell us is true. Trust the science. Whatever we all have our opinions and thoughts. That’s what makes America great freedom of choice. I choose to wait on the vaccine. Gonna keep living the way I and all those I’m around have since last May. We didn’t wear a mask then not going to change now. Im moving on from this subject.
Wow, you were even wrong about that.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: KoD

Jacob

Member
Messages
916
Reaction score
455
Location
Moody, AL
While your gloating about your vaccine and pounding your chest here is an example of what happens to some that take the vaccine because people like you scream the vaccine is safe. Well why don’t you send some money to this family because their medical bills are all on them. Why? Because the vaccine makers are not responsible. Yes you and your family had no issues but many are not so fortunate. Right now you and your family are guinea pigs until the clinical trials are over. So don’t be so certain you are not going to have issues from the vaccine in the future. Karma has a way of coming around. Also I guess she’s not real right? There is 2 sides to this virus. Death and medical issues from Covid and death and and medical issues from the vaccines.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say statistics has never been your strongest subject
 

Evan

Member
2021 Supporter
Messages
1,983
Reaction score
1,000
Location
McCalla, AL
Everything the media and govt. say and tell us is true. Trust the science. Whatever we all have our opinions and thoughts. That’s what makes America great freedom of choice. I choose to wait on the vaccine. Gonna keep living the way I and all those I’m around have since last May. We didn’t wear a mask then not going to change now. Im moving on from this subject.

I have been nothing but respectful to you in my responses. I laid out the logical and moral rationale for why people under 30 would benefit from getting vaccinated and also why it would benefit the broader community.

I have disagreed in this thread with several different people regarding different issues related to COVID and we've always had a fruitful discussion. Your posts give an indication that you're not interested in discussion/debate as much as you're interested in proselytizing. There's a large difference between the two methods.
 

Evan

Member
2021 Supporter
Messages
1,983
Reaction score
1,000
Location
McCalla, AL
While your gloating about your vaccine and pounding your chest here is an example of what happens to some that take the vaccine because people like you scream the vaccine is safe. Well why don’t you send some money to this family because their medical bills are all on them. Why? Because the vaccine makers are not responsible. Yes you and your family had no issues but many are not so fortunate. Right now you and your family are guinea pigs until the clinical trials are over. So don’t be so certain you are not going to have issues from the vaccine in the future. Karma has a way of coming around. Also I guess she’s not real right? There is 2 sides to this virus. Death and medical issues from Covid and death and and medical issues from the vaccines.

A little perspective is useful. The odds of someone experiencing one of those clots is over 1/1,000,000. The odds of being struck by lightning at some point in your life is a 1/15,300. Someone has a 65 times greater risk of being struck by lightning at some point in their life than experiencing a clot due to the JnJ vaccine. Should we prevent those under 30 from going outside? Or should we properly weigh the risk vs reward?
 

maroonedinhsv

Member
Messages
511
Reaction score
375
Location
Harvest, AL
A little perspective is useful. The odds of someone experiencing one of those clots is over 1/1,000,000. The odds of being struck by lightning at some point in your life is a 1/15,300. Someone has a 65 times greater risk of being struck by lightning at some point in their life than experiencing a clot due to the JnJ vaccine. Should we prevent those under 30 from going outside? Or should we properly weigh the risk vs reward?
I'm pretty sure you can stop replying to him now.
 

Mike S

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
PerryW Project Supporter
Messages
1,722
Reaction score
855
Location
Huntsville, Al
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
My almost 28 year old son had his second Moderna yesterday and other than a bit of soreness around the shot area has experienced no side effects thus far. He's almost exactly 24 hours out from his 2nd shot.
 

bjdeming

Member
2021 Supporter
Messages
414
Reaction score
242
Location
Corvallis, Oregon
Had my second shot Wednesday and slept pretty much all the way through to this morning (last fall's flu shot affected me that way, too). A little queasiness, body aches, and sniffles for the first 12 hours, but not bad. All in all, not as bad as I expected.

The good news was that there were many more people at Reser Stadium getting their first dose than a month ago, when I got mine.
 

Jacob

Member
Messages
916
Reaction score
455
Location
Moody, AL
This is the type of stuff that really irritates me out of the media, and as usual it is taken completely out of context and used as an attack on Florida.


I don't recall seeing anywhere in the article that nationally those 3 variants made up about 28% of cases in mid-March, and they now account for over 70% of cases nationally. If you only single out cases of a particular variant, it'll look like a surge is taking place as it becomes the dominant strain in circulation.

Edit: Also, for reference, Florida's 7 day average of total cases is now lower than it was 2 months ago
 
Last edited:

bjdeming

Member
2021 Supporter
Messages
414
Reaction score
242
Location
Corvallis, Oregon
Update on that second shot: There apparently will be relapses, just like I got with the first one, only more intense. Found that out today when the sun rose but I didn't until around 11:30! I do feel okay now, though -- it's sort of like the nap attacks with the first shot. Luckily, there wasn't much on my schedule today.

Figure this will last off and on for about 2-1/2 weeks from the injection, like the first one's effects did. I don't mind, considering what I've read here about protection from viral septicemia and reducing the chances of mutation! And I feel less worried about the fall peak this year.

Edit, 5/13: A pleasant surprise: no nap attacks after that one, and only a liitle drop in energy.
 
Last edited:

Mike S

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
PerryW Project Supporter
Messages
1,722
Reaction score
855
Location
Huntsville, Al
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
19 hours post 2nd Moderna shot and I feel fine. My arm is sore this time, which it wasn't the first time, but I'm not feeling the fatigue I felt with round 1. I'll gladly take that trade off.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top