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ghost

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So if I understand correctly... there have been approximately 7 million J&J vaccines given and 7 people have developed Cerebral Venous Sinus Thrombosis (CVST) after taking the vaccine. According to the CDC, natural occurrence of CVST affects 5 people in a million every year. 7 out of 7 million is less than 5 out of a million (or 35 out of 7 million). If the rate of CVST is 5 times less than what occurs in the general public after receiving the J&J vaccine, that would seem like a good thing instead of something that would cause it to be banned.
 

Jacob

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So if I understand correctly... there have been approximately 7 million J&J vaccines given and 7 people have developed Cerebral Venous Sinus Thrombosis (CVST) after taking the vaccine. According to the CDC, natural occurrence of CVST affects 5 people in a million every year. 7 out of 7 million is less than 5 out of a million (or 35 out of 7 million). If the rate of CVST is 5 times less than what occurs in the general public after receiving the J&J vaccine, that would seem like a good thing instead of something that would cause it to be banned.

The CVST number linked to J&J in the US is now up to 14, but overall that's still a pretty small number. If there's not a lot more unreported out there, then this is proving to be (as we all suspected it would be) a monumental blunder if the end goal is to get as many shots in as many people as possible. A simple reccomendation for women 18-50 to get one of the other vaccines would've been a much better option.
 

Matthew70

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Lol. The vaccines are not a 100% as you and I both know. So if everyone gets the vaccine then everyone can still catch Covid. Obviously you can not understand that. Call my opinions ignorant or idiotic that’s fine. Spoken like a true liberal. No one else’s opinions matter and if they question something then they are ignorant or idiotic. Not one other individual in this chat has been an money maker except you. Look you got your vaccine and I’m sure all your friends and family got it. If others do not want to get the vaccine for sometime till they see what the long term effects might be then good for them. It’s absolutely proven that this virus does not harm younger adults and children. So why are we so anxious to vaccinate these kids and I mean young ones? Again if the kids are around people that have been vaccinated it does not matter. Those that take the vaccine should have no worries. Again these vaccines are in clinical trials still. No one knows the long term effects. No fda approval. So let’s just say in a year people start having medical issues from the vaccines. That’s a lot of people but oh well guess what. No one is accountable for the medical issues or cost. Those that do are just on their own. Just like the ones that have taken the vaccine and now are having major medical issues to people actually dying from them. I guess that does not matter right? Yes same happens with flu but it’s been around for a long time and it’s a different vaccine. Also how about all the individuals that have taken the vaccine and got extremely sick from it and now are saying they will not take it. How do you plan to convince them to take it again when they have already suffered from taking the vaccine?
 

Matthew70

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This is if the numbers we are being told are correct on the adverse reactions. We know the media and social media censors and hides the truth in many cases. There really is no legitimate proof either way.
 

maroonedinhsv

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Lol. The vaccines are not a 100% as you and I both know. So if everyone gets the vaccine then everyone can still catch Covid. Obviously you can not understand that. Call my opinions ignorant or idiotic that’s fine. Spoken like a true liberal. No one else’s opinions matter and if they question something then they are ignorant or idiotic. Not one other individual in this chat has been an money maker except you. Look you got your vaccine and I’m sure all your friends and family got it. If others do not want to get the vaccine for sometime till they see what the long term effects might be then good for them. It’s absolutely proven that this virus does not harm younger adults and children. So why are we so anxious to vaccinate these kids and I mean young ones? Again if the kids are around people that have been vaccinated it does not matter. Those that take the vaccine should have no worries. Again these vaccines are in clinical trials still. No one knows the long term effects. No fda approval. So let’s just say in a year people start having medical issues from the vaccines. That’s a lot of people but oh well guess what. No one is accountable for the medical issues or cost. Those that do are just on their own. Just like the ones that have taken the vaccine and now are having major medical issues to people actually dying from them. I guess that does not matter right? Yes same happens with flu but it’s been around for a long time and it’s a different vaccine. Also how about all the individuals that have taken the vaccine and got extremely sick from it and now are saying they will not take it. How do you plan to convince them to take it again when they have already suffered from taking the vaccine?
1) The political thread is located elsewhere, but since you brought it up, I'm a conservative who predominantly votes Republican (hey, look - you're wrong again)
2) It is absolutely NOT proven that "this virus does not harm younger adults and children". In fact, the exact opposite has been proven. While it harms and kills younger adults and children at a much lower rate than the elderly, there are documented cases of young people suffering from this virus (hey, look - you're wrong again)
3) I can not explain the math to you yet again explaining why, even if you are vaccinated, it is beneficial for those in your close proximity to also be vaccinated. Just realize that - hey, look - you're wrong again.
 

Matthew70

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Wow you are a genius and always right. I have never met someone who is always right. I bet you can walk on water. God made you perfect. You are a useless to try and have a conversation with. You say I’m wrong on the vaccine not hurting younger adults well ok at a very very very small %. Most everyone under 60 has a better chance to survive Covid than taking the vaccine. Bottom line you got your vaccine as others have. So enjoy it and your freedom. Your next round or booster is coming around again. I will keep living just like I have and like all the others around me have here in TN. Don’t even worry about saying it. I am wrong. Lol.
 
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KoD

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Most everyone under 60 has a better chance to survive Covid than taking the vaccine.
It’s absolutely proven that this virus does not harm younger adults and children.
You're not just wrong, you're egregiously wrong. If you believe that then it's no wonder you say the things you do.
You wouldn't get such snarky comments if you weren't spreading misinformation that is actually harmful. It sounds like you want us to mind our own pro-vaccine business and do our own thing while you are helping to perpetuate the lies and ignorance that will keep millions of people from getting vaccinated and some of them will & have already needlessly died. You're wrong and your falsehoods are arrogantly disgusting.
 

ghost

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Wow you are a genius and always right. I have never met someone who is always right. I bet you can walk on water. God made you perfect. You are a useless to try and have a conversation with. You say I’m wrong on the vaccine not hurting younger adults well ok at a very very very small %. Most everyone under 60 has a better chance to survive Covid than taking the vaccine. Bottom line you got your vaccine as others have. So enjoy it and your freedom. Your next round or booster is coming around again. I will keep living just like I have and like all the others around me have here in TN. Don’t even worry about saying it. I am wrong. Lol.
This is a terrible lie you are propagating. If you think the vaccine will kill more people than Covid, you have no clue about science and the real world. Where do you get your info? Really.. I want to know? OAN? Newsmax? Who feeds you this BS and why do you believe it?
 

Matthew70

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I do not watch any of those. Someone under 50 has a high chance of survival without any complications. Let me clarify my statement above. No way am I saying taking the vaccine will kill more than Covid. Taking the vaccine if one is under 50 is not increasing their chances of survival. It’s a mute point. If someone wishes to take it for comfort and they want to then do it. The lie is taking the vaccine prevents one from getting Covid and not dying. Yes it shows in early clinical trials it’s 95% effective in lessening symptoms but what will be the results in another 6 months? It’s not misinformation. Anyone under 30 should not take the vaccine or be forced to. Let natural immunity work. Now if they have medical complications then maybe they should in future. I understand the push for the vaccine but also rushing to not get the vaccine is also a smart choice. Let time pass and these clinical trials of all those who have taken it to see what happens in the next year. We all have seen meds be passed and distributed to only have issues and lawsuits in coming years from not being clinically tested long enough. Pfizer has made already 3.5 billion on the vaccines. Lol. Funny how saving lives brings such billions to big pharma. Gives them the money they need to fight the lawsuits in the future.
 

thundersnow

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Using terms like “big pharma” suggests you are under the influence of political rhetoric-driven sources.

I feel like I’ve gotten pretty good at recognizing spheres of influence just from the terminology folks use.

It’s ironic- referring to industries with the “big” descriptor (big oil, big banks, etc.) used to be leftist talk at one time.
 
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maroonedinhsv

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You're not just wrong, you're egregiously wrong. If you believe that then it's no wonder you say the things you do.
You wouldn't get such snarky comments if you weren't spreading misinformation that is actually harmful. It sounds like you want us to mind our own pro-vaccine business and do our own thing while you are helping to perpetuate the lies and ignorance that will keep millions of people from getting vaccinated and some of them will & have already needlessly died. You're wrong and your falsehoods are arrogantly disgusting.
Bingo. I don’t have a problem with differing opinions on the matter, but I take issue with incorrect facts (AKA the aforementioned ignorance and idiocy).
 

thundersnow

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Taking the vaccine if one is under 50 is not increasing their chances of survival.
The chance of dying from Covid under 50 is low but not zero. Not sure how you can say a vaccine that is 95% effective at preventing doesn’t increase chances of survival (even though chance of survival was statistically high). But, neither here nor there.


The lie is taking the vaccine prevents one from getting Covid and not dying.

Lie? What lie? No one is saying the vaccine is a guarantee that you won’t get Covid and die... just that it greatly reduces the chance of you getting and spreading the virus.
 
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Jacob

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A small update to Israel's current situation, their decline in hospitalizations is almost an exact mirror from their 2020 spring wave, just about two weeks ahead of schedule. If we hope to see our first real world example of the vaccine being successful, we need to see these two seperate as we move further into May, and really diverge in June. I offset 2021 by 16 days (i.e., April 1st data is shown as April 16th) to compare the curves of the two years.

1620216184575.png

Edit: Wanted to add the full view of Israel hospitalizations, so it didn't look like I was trying to cherry pick data with the above. Really want to see that red line stay low into June/July.

1620216769969.png
 
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warneagle

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We already knew the existing vaccines weren't as effective against the South African variant as it is against other variants. This is why getting shots in arms as quickly as possible and maintaining precautions until we get to a sufficient level of vaccination is important. The less the virus spreads, the fewer chances it has to mutate into new variants that the vaccines don't protect against as well. 62% isn't good enough when the virus is still actively spreading among the unvaccinated population, which isn't surprising. A 62% vaccination rate against measles wouldn't be good enough to prevent it from spreading either. This isn't proof that the vaccines don't work, it's proof that you need a high rate of vaccination to suppress an infectious disease, which we already knew from decades of experience with other diseases.
 

warneagle

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The thing about those figures from Israel is that this year, they're achieving that drop with most of the COVID restrictions lifted. The whole point of the COVID restrictions was to keep cases down while the vaccine was developed and distributed. The fact that they're getting better numbers now with most of their schools and businesses fully reopened than they did last year when they had a lockdown in place shows that the vaccination campaign is working there, which is impressive since they're still only at ~56%.
 

Matthew70

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Will be interesting what happens after a year or 2 with how people’s bodies respond to the vaccines and the boosters or next round of shots. Canada says it appears likely they will have to combine vaccines since they will be shortages of certain ones. Will be interesting if anything happens crossing vaccines. It’s not been tested yet so we shall see. Also have this to look into. Really no reason anyone under 30 that is healthy should take the vaccine. The chances as have been shown of dying or having issues from Covid are almost a zero.
 

gangstonc

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I do not watch any of those. Someone under 50 has a high chance of survival without any complications. Let me clarify my statement above. No way am I saying taking the vaccine will kill more than Covid. Taking the vaccine if one is under 50 is not increasing their chances of survival. It’s a mute point. If someone wishes to take it for comfort and they want to then do it. The lie is taking the vaccine prevents one from getting Covid and not dying. Yes it shows in early clinical trials it’s 95% effective in lessening symptoms but what will be the results in another 6 months? It’s not misinformation. Anyone under 30 should not take the vaccine or be forced to. Let natural immunity work. Now if they have medical complications then maybe they should in future. I understand the push for the vaccine but also rushing to not get the vaccine is also a smart choice. Let time pass and these clinical trials of all those who have taken it to see what happens in the next year. We all have seen meds be passed and distributed to only have issues and lawsuits in coming years from not being clinically tested long enough. Pfizer has made already 3.5 billion on the vaccines. Lol. Funny how saving lives brings such billions to big pharma. Gives them the money they need to fight the lawsuits in the future.
Implying people under 30 don’t need to get vaccinated is a mistake. We are rapidly learning that young people are at risk for long term complications from the virus. Further, many of the new variants are hitting you young population hard. The current cases numbers are largely driven by the younger members of the population, and could still put a strain on our hospitals.
If young people keep getting and transmitting the virus, that gives more opportunities for mutations to form that are vaccine resistant.
Also, I want our economy and daily lives to get back to norma. That requires our young people to not be sick.
 

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