Congressman Steve Scalise (R) from Louisiana and some members of the security team have been shot early in the morning at a baseball park near Alexandria VA. Scalise and other colleagues were practicing for the Congressional baseball game which was to be played at the Nationals Park later this week. The shooter is supposedly down and captured. Prayers that all injured will recover
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Evan
Member
Saddened for Scalise and the staffers/police that were shot or otherwise injured.
It appears that the shooter was a strident Bernie Sanders voter with strong Anti-Trump beliefs.
We will continue to face these problems because of the rhetoric of blaming the left/right or Dems/GOP instead of both sides providing a crystal clear message that violence in politics is unacceptable for any reason. Whether Gianforte's bodyslam or today's shooting, both parties need to really think about the state of partisanship in this country and present a united message condemning political violence.
I'm not going to hold my breathe that the rhetoric will get toned down, but it would be helpful. Rhetoric doesn't cause someone to go on a shooting rampage, but it certainly helps them in their mental gymnastics to justify their actions. Most mentally ill people still know right from wrong.
Saying things like the GOP is going to KILL millions by repealing the ACA, or that Democrats fund and help ISIS, are the types of things that mentally disturbed or angry people have a hard time processing as rhetoric. They may simply take such statements at face value and believe them to be 100% accurate.
Our country needs leaders not afraid to confront the toxic political atmosphere that exists all over the USA. We need these leaders to provide calm and steady reminders of what has made American democracy unique and an envy throughout the world.
As I've stated in the past, this climate of partisanship and mistrust, the erosion of norms, and the weakening of institutions is exactly what Putin hoped to achieve by interfering in our election. I'm not referring to collusion with Trump or anything related to Trump. I'm talking about the DNC hack, attempted RNC hack, and the hacking/attempted hacking of voter registration or data systems in 39 states.
Putin wanted to sow discord among Western allies both domestically in their internal politics, and internationally among members of the NATO alliance.
We won the Cold War, but are we going to win this new one?
It appears that the shooter was a strident Bernie Sanders voter with strong Anti-Trump beliefs.
We will continue to face these problems because of the rhetoric of blaming the left/right or Dems/GOP instead of both sides providing a crystal clear message that violence in politics is unacceptable for any reason. Whether Gianforte's bodyslam or today's shooting, both parties need to really think about the state of partisanship in this country and present a united message condemning political violence.
I'm not going to hold my breathe that the rhetoric will get toned down, but it would be helpful. Rhetoric doesn't cause someone to go on a shooting rampage, but it certainly helps them in their mental gymnastics to justify their actions. Most mentally ill people still know right from wrong.
Saying things like the GOP is going to KILL millions by repealing the ACA, or that Democrats fund and help ISIS, are the types of things that mentally disturbed or angry people have a hard time processing as rhetoric. They may simply take such statements at face value and believe them to be 100% accurate.
Our country needs leaders not afraid to confront the toxic political atmosphere that exists all over the USA. We need these leaders to provide calm and steady reminders of what has made American democracy unique and an envy throughout the world.
As I've stated in the past, this climate of partisanship and mistrust, the erosion of norms, and the weakening of institutions is exactly what Putin hoped to achieve by interfering in our election. I'm not referring to collusion with Trump or anything related to Trump. I'm talking about the DNC hack, attempted RNC hack, and the hacking/attempted hacking of voter registration or data systems in 39 states.
Putin wanted to sow discord among Western allies both domestically in their internal politics, and internationally among members of the NATO alliance.
We won the Cold War, but are we going to win this new one?
Evan
Member
Man, what has happened to you? Do you really believe this is helpful?
Evan, Soros is behind a lot of this crap happening on college campi, the anti Trump marches and on and on. He is a clear and present danger to the national security of the country and should be dealt with accordingly. There is an attempt going on to take down a duly elected president. They found no evidence of collusion so they move on the obstruction of justice. If nothing there(which there is not) then they will move on to another false charge. This will never end. They are trying to destroy Jeff Session's who I know to be a very honorable and decent man. The left will stop at nothing to achieve their political goals. I am sick and tired of the left destroying good and decent people. What we are witnessing today is Obama's legacy.
Leland Whaley sums it up pretty well. I know he's just another right wing kook but here goes.
I don't want to hear the phony "above the fray" comments about the "tone" in politics these days. There is NO moral equivalence here. The Left in this country has been blood thirsty since the before election. It was Soros sponsored groups that picked fights at events during elections. ANTIFA is a terrorist organization violently shutting down diversity of thoughts on college campuses. Kathy Griffin held up a bloody head. Shakespeare in the Park just last weekend fantasized about assassinating Trump in that name of art. They have provoked violence since they lost. The shooter was a Bernie hack and a left wing activist who belonged to a group called Terminate the GOP. Our God given freedom to think, debate and speak our minds in this country should not bow down to this left wing assault on our country. Speak more loudly. I'll be damned if I cave into these thugs.
I don't want to hear the phony "above the fray" comments about the "tone" in politics these days. There is NO moral equivalence here. The Left in this country has been blood thirsty since the before election. It was Soros sponsored groups that picked fights at events during elections. ANTIFA is a terrorist organization violently shutting down diversity of thoughts on college campuses. Kathy Griffin held up a bloody head. Shakespeare in the Park just last weekend fantasized about assassinating Trump in that name of art. They have provoked violence since they lost. The shooter was a Bernie hack and a left wing activist who belonged to a group called Terminate the GOP. Our God given freedom to think, debate and speak our minds in this country should not bow down to this left wing assault on our country. Speak more loudly. I'll be damned if I cave into these thugs.
Evan
Member
This isn't a partisan issue. There will always be people from both sides that use violence instead of debate. There will always be people from both sides that use violent imagery instead of simple disagreement with policy and direction.
Let's not forget that George W. Bush was burned in effigy. Or that there were NUMEROUS cases of Obama dolls/mannequins/corpses being hung.
The tone and rhetoric in this country has become increasingly violent, partisan, and close minded. I've witnessed the increase in just my 35 years of life.
Neither side can claim to be free from these issues or their own extremists and nutjobs. Why have the same tired debate every time? Is it solving the problem for you to claim only the left is guilty, and then I list people like McVeigh, militia movements, Nazi/White Supremacist groups, and enumerate all the right wing people that have committed violence for political or social reasons? It absolutely doesn't solve the problem. It just leads to more of the same.
To claim that either side has a monopoly on violence or inappropriate rhetoric is just being willfully ignorant of those on your own side. I'm a Conservative, and I know that there are extremists among us that are guilty of the violent behavior and extreme rhetoric that I'm referring to. I also know there are plenty of Liberals that are guilty of the same.
Fact is, the majority of Conservatives and Liberals alike disdain the extremists that use violence, hateful rhetoric, and false stories to push their political views.
If you disagree with using violence, hateful rhetoric, and false stories then all you have to do is say so, and be willing to reject and disassociate anyone that engages in that sort of behavior. If you believe your side is innocent then you are part of the noxious atmosphere that leads to events like this being used to score cheap political points.
It doesn't matter if you think 2/10 Liberals are guilty and only 1/10 Conservatives are. That's irrelevant. Principles are principles -- moral relativism simply leads to a circle of each side justifying increasingly damaging behavior in response to what they see as the other side NOT playing by the rules.
You were in the military. If the enemy is using civilian shields and raping young girls does that justify our military doing the same? Of course not. Why? Because of principles. Same goes for why we don't just go ahead and use chemical weapons on ISIS. If we don't stand on principle then why should any other country or people?
What we justify today is what becomes acceptable tomorrow. I don't know why you've decided to start reading and believing fake news sites or Infowars-esque conspiracies, but just know that the Democrats can do the same thing, and there has started to be a proliferation of fake/slanted news sites aimed at Liberals. When we as society no longer have mutually acceptable facts, behavior, and norms then that means that anything goes. And I mean anything. Think about that for a second.
Let's not forget that George W. Bush was burned in effigy. Or that there were NUMEROUS cases of Obama dolls/mannequins/corpses being hung.
The tone and rhetoric in this country has become increasingly violent, partisan, and close minded. I've witnessed the increase in just my 35 years of life.
Neither side can claim to be free from these issues or their own extremists and nutjobs. Why have the same tired debate every time? Is it solving the problem for you to claim only the left is guilty, and then I list people like McVeigh, militia movements, Nazi/White Supremacist groups, and enumerate all the right wing people that have committed violence for political or social reasons? It absolutely doesn't solve the problem. It just leads to more of the same.
To claim that either side has a monopoly on violence or inappropriate rhetoric is just being willfully ignorant of those on your own side. I'm a Conservative, and I know that there are extremists among us that are guilty of the violent behavior and extreme rhetoric that I'm referring to. I also know there are plenty of Liberals that are guilty of the same.
Fact is, the majority of Conservatives and Liberals alike disdain the extremists that use violence, hateful rhetoric, and false stories to push their political views.
If you disagree with using violence, hateful rhetoric, and false stories then all you have to do is say so, and be willing to reject and disassociate anyone that engages in that sort of behavior. If you believe your side is innocent then you are part of the noxious atmosphere that leads to events like this being used to score cheap political points.
It doesn't matter if you think 2/10 Liberals are guilty and only 1/10 Conservatives are. That's irrelevant. Principles are principles -- moral relativism simply leads to a circle of each side justifying increasingly damaging behavior in response to what they see as the other side NOT playing by the rules.
You were in the military. If the enemy is using civilian shields and raping young girls does that justify our military doing the same? Of course not. Why? Because of principles. Same goes for why we don't just go ahead and use chemical weapons on ISIS. If we don't stand on principle then why should any other country or people?
What we justify today is what becomes acceptable tomorrow. I don't know why you've decided to start reading and believing fake news sites or Infowars-esque conspiracies, but just know that the Democrats can do the same thing, and there has started to be a proliferation of fake/slanted news sites aimed at Liberals. When we as society no longer have mutually acceptable facts, behavior, and norms then that means that anything goes. And I mean anything. Think about that for a second.
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ARCC
Member
I do have to say it disturbed me the other day when at the Sanders rally people were shouting for him to start the "People's" party.
Not related to this issue, just brought it to mind.
Not related to this issue, just brought it to mind.
Before the election, but especially after the election the democrats and the main stream media have whipped up their followers into a frenzy. They have repeatedly said Trump was illegitimate, crazy and not worthy to be president. They claimed collusion and now obstruction of justice. They promised the lunatic left that Trump would be impeached. For what ? There are tons on examples of Hollywood types, elected democrat officials and others saying and doing horrible things about him or an effigy of him. Truly disgusting stuff. This guy may have been a mental case but you have to lay some of the blame at the hands of the people stoking the fire. Several networks have devoted themselves to trumps destruction. It has been non stop for months. Nothing like this was ever done by Republicans against Obama. There were incidents but they were isolated.
Evan
Member
Seriously? Of course Republicans did similar things. Remember the entire Birther conspiracy? That wasn't an attempt to de-legitimize Obama as POTUS? Considering the highest elected Republican official in the country was a ringleader of the Birther ridiculousness it is really amazing to say the GOP hasn't done the same.
Like I said, a counter-example can be provided for almost any partisan accusation. That's why this is a foolish endeavor as I stated earlier in this thread. Both parties have their fair share of extremists and bad behavior.
There's nothing to be gained in a tit-for-tat recitation of wrongdoing by each party's members. After all, parties are about policy not ideology. Conservatives and Liberals have ideological differences. The parties have policy differences. Hence the reason you have Conservative Democrats and Liberal Republicans. Trying to pin blame on one particular party is not really logical considering how people with diverse ideologies are members of both parties.
Evan
Member
Trump has done an excellent job so far in response to today's shooting.
Rep. Scalise's injuries sound more serious than previously reported. Please pray for him. Really hope he can pull through.
Rep. Scalise's injuries sound more serious than previously reported. Please pray for him. Really hope he can pull through.
A small number of Republicans pushed the birther issue. The vile rhetoric coming from the democrat leadership and a good number of their members has to stop. How often are Republicans accused of wanting to kill babies, starve the elderly, let old folks eat dog food. They had paul Ryan pushing an old lady in a wheelchair off a cliff. I could go on an on. Go back and listen or read some recent Maxine Waters comments. Or Nancy Pelosi or Chuckie Schumer. Sorry Evan, but one side participates in the vulgar behavior much more than the other.
gangstonc
Member
No.
Yes.
Evan
Member
POTUS, leader of Republicans, was the one who kept the idiotic birther theory going. Even during the campaign last year until finally forced to denounce it.
Huffpo writer tweets that for violent resistance to work it needs to be better organized.
http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/06/...ishes-violent-resistance-were-more-organized/
http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/06/...ishes-violent-resistance-were-more-organized/
