2022 and Beyond Discussion on Religion (1 Viewer)

JayF

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What religion would the constitution and US govt favor?
The U.S. Government, having been formed by the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, already States that We are endowed by our creator. Almighty God is that creator, as stated and referenced in the many state constitutions.
You are looking for a specific religion, Like a denomination. However, there is only one form of Christianity. Denominations are nothing more than ideals set upon what God has given us. Anything else is an idea that doesn't follow Jesus Christ, and while they may follow a god, is it the One True God.
If you try to get me into a theological debate, we probably need to take that elsewhere. This is a political thread.
 

gangstonc

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The U.S. Government, having been formed by the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, already States that We are endowed by our creator. Almighty God is that creator, as stated and referenced in the many state constitutions.
You are looking for a specific religion, Like a denomination. However, there is only one form of Christianity. Denominations are nothing more than ideals set upon what God has given us. Anything else is an idea that doesn't follow Jesus Christ, and while they may follow a god, is it the One True God.
If you try to get me into a theological debate, we probably need to take that elsewhere. This is a political thread.
More religions than Christianity have a creator. More religions than Christianity have a God.

Again, the government cannot enhance or inhibit a religion.
 

JayF

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More religions than Christianity have a creator. More religions than Christianity have a God.

Again, the government cannot enhance or inhibit a religion.
You and I think of Christianities' involvement with the Government differently than I do. The government doesn't tell us what to do. Instead, we are a part of the government, guiding and forming what the government is. You keep talking about the Governments influence on religion. They have none.
 

ghost

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You and I think of Christianities' involvement with the Government differently than I do. The government doesn't tell us what to do. Instead, we are a part of the government, guiding and forming what the government is. You keep talking about the Governments influence on religion. They have none.
Jesus never told His people to try and control and change government... He was solely focused on his kingdom and changing lives.. not changing politics.
 

JayF

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Jesus never told His people to try and control and change government... He was solely focused on his kingdom and changing lives.. not changing politics.
Let's take a trip into the bible for a minute and see what God has to say about Government and what We are to do with and for government.

Romans 13 is the passage I often go to when anyone mentions why do we have governments and what are they for and how are we to be involved. First off God says that those in the government are His servants. Whether someone in government believes that or not is mute. God said it therefore it is so.

Romans 13:4 "For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience."

Second If the servants of God are in government, are not the followers of God also servants? Servants of God leading man towards what God has intended? As it pertains to Jesus, Isaiah 9:6 references this well. "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace"

For those that do not follow Christ, this doesn't matter to them as it is invisible to them. But to believers and followers of Christ it is absolutely visible. And one day it will be visible to all.

Third what does Jesus himself say about government? In Mark 12:15-17 Jesus has this conversation with the Pharisees.

"But, knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, “Why put me to the test? Bring me a denarius4 and let me look at it.” And they brought one. And he said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said to him, “Caesar’s.” 17 Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they marveled at him."

Governments in this world will rise and fall and God will oversee them until one day Jesus will rule over the earth. His Kingdom will never fail. I hear your comment, "But not everyone believes in God or in Jesus." Does that mean that I should put my beliefs on hold while someone tramples on my freedoms to believe, worship, serve and guide others and this country in a direction that Jesus says we should go in? That would be the same as saying you should give up what you believe in because not everyone believes the same.

For the person who is a follower of Jesus Christ, they should absolutely lead by their faith. Lead by the direction God shows them. And if God has put that individual in politics, it is for no reason and they should lead with Christ carrying them through.

For the person who is not a follower, God controls all things and we know that one day this world will fall into chaos. But God always uses a hurt or tragedy for good, and one day, this world absolutely will fall and be remade where Jesus will be the ruler of it for 1000 years.

For those who say religion shouldn't be involved in government, I believe I have shown how the bible says differently. I believe that God puts those in power (Yes even Joe Biden) who he wants in power for a season. We may not always understand why, it is not our job to. It is our job to follow God and His will for our lives.

If you think I haven't believed what I have just said for some time. Here I post a video for you that lays out exactly what I thought right after Joe Biden was elected.

 
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JayF

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Jesus never told His people to try and control and change government... He was solely focused on his kingdom and changing lives.. not changing politics.
One Last point and I wanted to put this all by itself so as it would be read alone and by itself.

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20
 

JayF

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Sorry... I've been out of town some and busy with other things while at home. That last verse you posted in Matthew made my point exactly... Jesus was about changing peoples lives not overthrowing governments
Who said anything about overthrowing governments?
 

JayF

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Nope. You take the Bible as literal unadulterated word of God. You think it’s the best option for everyone. I don’t. You won’t change your mind.
And why exactly would I change my mind when I believe that the bible is the literal word of God. Why would I walk away from the words Jesus said.
 

ghost

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I don't think all governments are servants of God nor do I think all those that serve in governments are servants of God. I do think you can hold a position in government as a follower of Christ.

When you mentioned Romans 13 you said "First off God says that those in the government are His servants. Whether someone in government believes that or not is mute. God said it therefore it is so."

2 points we will probably disagree on... first I believe that was Paul saying that not God.. and second, there are numerous government leaders in history that were not servants of God.. e.g. Hitler, Lenin, Pol Pot, Attila the Hun, etc
 

ghost

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So did Alex Jones’s lawyers send those texts by accident or on purpose?
 

JayF

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I don't think all governments are servants of God nor do I think all those that serve in governments are servants of God. I do think you can hold a position in government as a follower of Christ.

When you mentioned Romans 13 you said "First off God says that those in the government are His servants. Whether someone in government believes that or not is mute. God said it therefore it is so."

2 points we will probably disagree on... first I believe that was Paul saying that not God.. and second, there are numerous government leaders in history that were not servants of God.. e.g. Hitler, Lenin, Pol Pot, Attila the Hun, etc

People can be evil and not do what God tells them to do. Governments are put in place by God ultimately for good. Satan tempts all people no matter in what position of power they are in. Having power just makes your sins that much more magnified. So when Satan Tempts you and you fall for it, it is magnified. God may have put Hitler in power, but then Hitler didn't follow God's plan and followed Satan.

I disagree when you speak of Paul and say that it isn't God-Breathed. Here is a good explanation of Paul.

 

ghost

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People can be evil and not do what God tells them to do. Governments are put in place by God ultimately for good. Satan tempts all people no matter in what position of power they are in. Having power just makes your sins that much more magnified. So when Satan Tempts you and you fall for it, it is magnified. God may have put Hitler in power, but then Hitler didn't follow God's plan and followed Satan.

I disagree when you speak of Paul and say that it isn't God-Breathed. Here is a good explanation of Paul.

I understand where you are coming from because I used to think the same way... how do you think we have the Bible that we have today?
 

JayF

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I understand where you are coming from because I used to think the same way... how do you think we have the Bible that we have today?
God gave it to man, and man put it into a book.
 

ghost

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God gave it to man, and man put it into a book.
Yeah I also believed God whispered every word that's found in the Bible into the writer's ear... then I couldn't explain the contradictions in it, so I began looking into how we got the Bible... eye opening and started making some sense on the things that seemed in direct conflict to a loving Savior
 

JayF

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Yeah I also believed God whispered every word that's found in the Bible into the writer's ear... then I couldn't explain the contradictions in it, so I began looking into how we got the Bible... eye opening and started making some sense on the things that seemed in direct conflict to a loving Savior
But are you listening to God about what the bible says or are you listening to man? Huge difference. Man can be deceiving. God, God will never deceive.
 

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