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Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread
- Thread starter Bama Ravens
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What would you like the government to do about that?
Evan
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You are not wrong and David is not wrong either. You raise an important point, and David did as well. What you described happening to your sister is not rare, but it is also not as commonplace as some people think it is. If Columbia terminated your sister and directly hired a replacement for half of her salary under the H1B program, they should be fined a significant amount of money and lose access to the H1B program. She should have sued them if that is what took place. However, I suspect Columbia did what other firms have done in similar situations. Before terminating your sister, it is extremely likely they planned to contract her department/job out to an external firm. Basically, they "outsourced" a particular department or a set of jobs to a contracting firm that had obtained massive numbers of H1Bs under the H1B program. Because Columbia did not hire a direct replacement, the outsourcing firm can actually modify the job description and slightly change the job duties and push the worker into a lower bucket on the prevailing wage scale and pay them much less. This is a huge problem with the H1B program, and I'm so sorry such a nasty and ridiculous thing happened to your sister. Absolutely wrong and pisses me off, and is something that should NOT be happening at all.
Columbia applied for (LCAs) 13 H1Bs in 2011, 18 in 2012, 16 in 2013, 33 in 2014, 42 in 2015, and 45 in 2016. I don't want to violate your sister's privacy, so I'm only going to ask a couple of general questions. From what you wrote, it sounds like Columbia made some really big changes that likely involved at least a hundred jobs. Please correct me if I am reading too much into your comments. I ask because depending upon when they did this horrible thing to your sister, it is pretty clear the company itself only had a dozen or two H1Bs until they really ramped up in 2015. In aggregate since 2011 they've had enough to replace a lot of employees, but I also believe Columbia HCA has added jobs during that time period, so I'd be very surprised if a lot of those H1Bs didn't go to new positions. They are not dumb people, and I would be shocked if they did something so transparent and illegal as directly hiring lower-wage H1Bs to replace terminated workers. Additionally, the average pay for the H1Bs they hired was between 85k-100k with most being 95k or higher. Anyway, if you can clarify that would be helpful. http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Hca/1079742.htm http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Hca-Management-Services/239167.htm
If Columbia did this directly your sister should sue them if she hasn't already. If they did this by using the "external contracting" trick, it is just as shameful, but it is not illegal. Durbin and Grassley have been trying since 2007 to close the outsourcing loophole and fix the H1b impact on wages, but they have been caught between 2 or 3 different extreme positions in the H1B debate. You have some members of Congress since 2007 (Cruz, Sessions, etc) that wanted to all but eliminate H1Bs by cutting the number allowed significantly, requiring extreme American first prioritization, setting wage floors, placing a moratorium on the program, and requiring layoff/re-structuring lookbacks that would prevent companies that made job cuts or consolidations from being able to access the H1B program for at least two years. The layoff/job lookback provision would essentially eliminate H1Bs for almost every single company because there's not a company out there that doesn't involuntarily terminate employees from time to time a a result of re-alignment, department closures, product launches, new technology priorities, etc.
The other extreme was legislation that essentially expanded H1B caps without much reform by increasing caps while requiring H1B applications to pay a fee to fund STEM training here in the USA for American workers. The Grassley and Durbin bill actually was a middle-ground position that recognized that H1Bs are NEEDED by a lot of companies, but the current system is broken and abused. But, because of the influence of CIS, Numbers USA, and Breitbart (groups that want to basically stop any further immigration into the US and/or disallow any additional foreign workers), such middle-ground compromises have been undercut and politicized as expanding H1Bs and taking American jobs.
It is no surprise, then, that Silicon Valley and American employers have lobbied and funded legislators and legislation that just expanded H1B and have avoided doing too much in the area of reform because of the extremists that seek to end the program entirely. Believe it or not, but Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and most of your larger tech companies, as well as your smaller rapidly growing tech companies actually desperately want H1B reform to fix the current loophole that allows the outsourcing companies to gobble up almost all of the H1B visas. They actually *DO* have labor shortages and a difficulty finding qualified workers because the outsourcing companies get the VAST MAJORITY of H1B visas. Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, and Google pay their H1B workers very similar salaries (if not higher) than their domestic employees because of the labor shortage. So, David is absolutely correct in asserting there is a shortage. But you are also correct in that abuse of the program is significantly harming wages and costing American workers their jobs.
Here is a great evidence of exactly what I am talking about. Facebook was actually number 33 on the list, so they are not on the image I made, but their average H1B salary was 140,578, but they were only able to get 1,012 H1Bs because of the outsourcing firms like Infosys, Tata Consultancy, Wipro, Accenture, Tech Mahindra, Igate Technologies, Cognizant Technology, and Larsen & Toubro Infotech. Look at the massive wage differential. Tata Consultancy pays an average of $69,648 while Microsoft & Google pay over 120k, Apple over 130k, Facebook over 140k, and Deloitte Consulting pays nearly 120k. I will conclude by saying what I've frequently said on immigration issues. Our country needs to take a clear-eyed and rational approach to immigration. Our system desperately needs reform. But the extremism of Trump, Cruz, Sessions and others is PART OF THE PROBLEM instead of being part of the solution. Apple, Google, Facebook and Microsoft will continue to spend hundreds of millions of dollars (or even billions) to oppose radical immigration cuts and bans because they CANNOT continue to grow and conduct business if the immigration system is shutdown. The bill that Tom Cotton introduced will absolutely be opposed by these companies because it prevents some of their most highly skilled and best workers from bringing their families here and living the American Dream. The solution is not the radical and impractical immigration bans, cuts, and shutdowns that Cotton, Cruz, Sessions, Trump and others propose. Open Borders and expanding low skill jobs and hurting wages is ALSO not the solution. There is a middle ground. Each side is going to have to give and take. And I will save this for another time, but the US economy is also extremely dependent upon immigration for its continued growth. Baby Boomer deaths are only going to continue to accelerate. Very few of the Greatest Generation are still around. Millennials and Generation X are reproducing at a fertility rate below replacement. In fact, the US fertility rate went below replacement after the 2007/2008 economic crisis and has not yet recovered. Those that fear population increases and anti-immigration groups like Numbers USA, CIS, etc are completely ignoring the economic harm that Western Europe is experiencing due to this, but even more telling is what has transpired in Russia and Japan. The latter two countries are facing an absolute crisis in population, and the drag on the economy is absolutely huge. Were it not for natural resources, Russia would be in economic hell right now, and Putin's invasion of Crimea and Ukraine (with an eye on Belarus and other countries with a significant Russian population) is heavily driven by a need to bring more people into Russia to save the economy.
If anyone doubts the information and facts that I provided in this post, I am happy to provide multiple links for each fact/argument. I did not do so because this post is already long enough, and I believe I've at least earned a reputation that should give me the benefit of the doubt. Sure, some of what I've said it based around political arguments, but the bulk of it is indisputable fact that can easily be proven with dozens of neutral sources.
Evan
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They should reform the H1B program and fix the loopholes that allow unconscionable crap like this to occur. I'm as pro business as they come, but this is not cost-cutting or trying to be more competitive. This is taking advantage of a loophole that should have been fixed a long time ago, and the only motivating factor is pure greed. No one should have this happen to them. Furthermore, stuff like this leads to the extreme immigration positions that have been taken by Sessions, Cruz, Trump, et all. It is also one of the reasons that Trump got elected, because it absolutely does happen (although not to the extent that Breitbart and Trump like to claim), and makes most people sick to their stomach.
One thing I have seen is that some companies do abandon these types of plans after significant pushback by the workers that depended on people like Matt's sister to do their job. The truly highly-skilled or genius type workers are almost always brought in as an addition and help a company grow and become more competitive. The outsourcing type H1Bs (and I'm almost positive that's what happened here) bring in marginally qualified workers that are more or less drones that simply cannot produce the quality of work that the person they replaced was able to provide. It is short term thinking by greedy executives that actually leads to lower productivity, reduced morale among remaining employees, and in the long term actually hurts the company, its shareholders, and its customers. This is one of the reason so many companies stopped outsourcing their call centers and customer service and brought them back onshore. They found out it wasn't worth it financially because it enraged customers, the quality of work was much less (requiring more workers, more money, and required domestic employees to "clean up" the mess), and hurt the company's reputation while leading to a loss of customers. These are broad generalizations and not always true as there are low-wage H1Bs that are actually very skilled, intelligent, and high-performing workers, but if they are they don't stick around for long making the lower wage they were brought in at. And, there is starting to be shifts and movements back to bringing these types of jobs back in-house or cancelling/not renewing the contract of the replacement workers, but that doesn't help Matt's sister one bit. Because she is out of a long-term job, and even if the company wanted to re-hire here would there ever be a level of trust or morale that existed before? Of course not.
The H1B abuses that occur are very serious. In a way, it is kind of like what James Spann says about tornado impacts. If a tornado hits YOUR house it is your April 27th 2011. If you are one of the workers that has been impacted in this way -- or a family member -- this is a huge issue for you. Even if the number of people effected is actually much less than certain media outlets and politicians want people to believe. Because it is such an egregious action, it makes people seriously doubt the benefit of immigration and hold attitudes that they wouldn't normally have. It also prevents leading edge tech companies and major economic contributors like big Silicon Valley tech companies from getting the workers they need. This is absolutely the fault of the government and greedy executives, and stuff like this is part and parcel of why there is a populist backlash in this country. It is just ammunition for Trump and his allies, but outside of that and even if that wasn't the case -- it is just flat out wrong for this kind of stuff to take place. This is NOT and was NOT supposed to be the intent of the H1B program.
I know you were just asking an open-ended question and it was directed to Matt, but immigration is something that is obviously a very important issue for me, and one of the biggest reasons is because it has been my experience that many, if not most, Americans don't have an accurate understanding of how the current system works, where/how real reform is needed, and that there are actually solutions out there that could fix most of the problems that Americans see as impacting their lives. And, obviously, I believe that it is important for any issue to be discussed factually, and in a way that evidence and reason are used to shape beliefs and policy, instead of the hyper-politicization and even propaganda that seems to substitute for facts and discussion in our country these days. I certainly mean no offense to anyone discussing this issue, but trust me when I say that the average American simply doesn't understand our immigration system at all. That, alone, should be a major reason for reform to take place, but it also requires extensive outreach and education so that the American people can elect politicians and a government that makes wise choices and decisions instead of playing political games with an issue that impacts the lives of every single American. Obviously that is not confined to just the immigration issue, but the discussion of ANY major political issue that impacts Americans on a daily basis. And, currently, into today's hyper-politicized and hyper-partisan environment, the bulk of the more extreme left and right are the loudest voices even if frequently they are the least informed and least rational when actually talking about what/can should be done, and what evidence/facts should be used in making decisions.
I'm far from perfect, but my political beliefs and morals are shaped not only by my Christian faith, but they have also been slowly forged by extensive research and reading of the positions held by experts in a particular field, as well as religious scholars, and well-regarded thinkers and policy wonks from the left, right, and center -- both American and International. Of course I have my biases and blind-spots, but I truly try to discuss things in a fair way incorporating different points of view as well as the overall consensus that evidence and facts supports.
Evan
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ghost, for some odd reason the forum frequently "skips" posts for me, so I did not see your post. Generally adoption visas for non-family members are a completely different visa category. However, if they are relatives, it could be a family visa situation. But, if the children are under 21 and not married, and not from the 7 countries in Trump's EO, there should not be a problem.
I'm guessing this is a non-family member adoption and would be subject just to the typical adoption visa rules. I haven't seen any proposed changes in that area so they shouldn't have a problem. I think Trump & the GOP have typically not had an issue with adoptions.
Thanks. Yes it is a non-family adoption with orphans from the Philippines
Kory
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Cancelling my Netflix subscription completely. Enough with giving my money to race baiters.....
Evan
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I'd say there is currently zero issue with their situation. Likely that Duterte is a bigger potential problem than anything happening.
Good luck to your friends. They are doing an amazing thing!
Evan
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Are you going to stop paying federal taxes?
Kory
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I wish I could.
I personally and fundamentally disagree with any tax on income (why punish someone for what they earned). But cancelling Netflix won't land me in legal trouble.
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From the democratic PPP, pubic policy polling:
'Just three weeks into his administration, voters are already evenly divided on the issue of impeaching Trump with 46% in favor and 46% opposed. Support for impeaching Trump has crept up from 35% 2 weeks ago, to 40% last week, to its 46% standing this week. While Clinton voters initially only supported Trump's impeachment 65/14, after seeing him in office over the last few weeks that's gone up already to 83/6.
“It only took three weeks in office for half the country to decide it wants to impeach Donald Trump,” said Dean Debnam, President of Public Policy Polling. “Voters who didn’t like Trump but were willing to give him a chance have quickly decided he’s not fit to hold the office.”'
Going pretty much as I expected it would.
I wonder how many of that 46% wanting to impeach Trump actually understand how the Presidential impeachment process works. You can't just impeach the President because he's unpopular or many folks dislike him. The Congress has to bring criminal charges against the President; indict him with Articles Of Impeachment......for actual crimes. I'll be the first to admit I don't like Trump's attitude and immaturity, but have yet to see any felonies he has committed since the inauguration only 3 weeks ago.
Trump doesn't even have his full Cabinet yet. He didn't have his Attorney General until two days ago; only got his Secretary Of State confirmed a week ago. I say give the man a chance. Any talk of impeaching him at this point is IMO laughable......at least from where this Georgia conservative sits.
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Most of them probably don't understand the impeachment process at all, given that a majority of people don't seem to understand how even basic fundamental government functions are performed.
The Slaughter At Fraggle Rock
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down
Bwahahaha
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down
Bwahahaha
Kory
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Alabama is on the cusp of going toward constitutional carry for handguns. That is huge and I hope it's passed.
When your in laws no longer have influence to peddle, bad things happen. The entire Clinton existence is corrupt to the core. Good riddance!
http://forward.com/fast-forward/362818/clinton-son-in-law-marc-mezvinsky-shuts-failed-hedge-fund/
http://forward.com/fast-forward/362818/clinton-son-in-law-marc-mezvinsky-shuts-failed-hedge-fund/
Evan
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I never want to hear about Hillary's email server ever again. Trump continues to use/carry an outdated and insecure Android phone, and has NATSEC conversations about North Korea at the dinner table surrounded by dozens or even hundreds of non-cleared and potentially compromised individuals. And, considering the number of people posting pictures of the event on social media, hundreds of insecure phones were just walking around while the meeting on North Korea took place.Also, the holder of one of the nuclear footballs was not just photographed (fairly common), but was OUTED by name on Facebook. How much of an idiot do you have to be to do something like that let alone be the person who allowed it?
Hillary Clinton was faulted by the FBI for the way she used the SCIF (Google SCIF if you don't know what it is) in her basement, and at the State Department, but here's Trump TALKING ON THE PHONE IN PUBLIC about North Korea (a launch almost assuredly detected by classified satellites and SIGINT). Unbelievable! Has a SCIF not been constructed at Mar-e-Lago along with private meeting space? Even though Japan is an ally, I really hope Trump didn't discuss anything classified as NOFORN that wasn't previously OKed to be released to Japanese leaders.
It is amazing to watch the same people who constantly said Hillary Clinton was not fit for the Presidency, and disqualified because of her server, say Trump doing these types of things, or allowing these types of things to happen, is no big deal.
Newsflash: Both Hillary AND Trump are wrong if/when they compromise NATSEC or classified information. Period.
gangstonc
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Seeing some reports that Flynn has resigned. Can't believe I was so worried about Hillary and security.
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Indeed, 24 days and we've seen scandal and now, high-level resignation.
On the first political thread, post-2008 election this place was lit up, posts for days about the President and every move he made or thing he said, criticized beyond its context. But for right now, mostly quiet....
What I've seen so far is genuinely appalling. I've not seen an ounce of progress towards improving our society or the world. Maybe (hopefully) that's because any mildly decent thing is covered up by all the garbage - or perhaps it's because I view appointing a billionaire oil CEO as secretary of state, a US/Mexico $20b border wall and a travel ban all steps in the wrong direction. Either way, such gross negativity has surrounded this person as a candidate and as a president.. I fail to see him unite the people of this country or its government. Sad!
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