Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[Evan]

Not going to read through Evan's books, except to say this. Typical, a personal attack starts it off, so not even going to start on this new board with you, "What a surprise that you have absolutely ZERO idea of what you are talking about. Is anyone here even remotely surprised?"
but Yes, I only pointed out those two countries where over half came from...that's WHY I pointed those two out. Where you take that from me thinking those are the only two is amazing.,I don't need you to tell me the others, thanks. Always talking down when there is no need.

Wouldn't it just be easier to admit you don't have a response instead of engaging in blatant hypocrisy? Didn't you just say:

"It's the anti-trump folks that need to grow a pair and stop being precious snowflakes that are so fragile"

Someone is being a fragile snowflake here. Is ducking an argument because you got your feelings hurt a fragile snowflake thing or related to the part about growing a pair?

Just asking you to clarify the statement you made before the supposed personal attack that crushed your feelings so bad you couldn't respond with a counter-argument.

 

[Stormlover]

I will say only one thing I disagree with, how this ban is started...it shouldn't have left people in limbo. People already in rout by air, for example, should have been able to go through.

 

[David in SW Blount]

I will say only one thing I disagree with, how this ban is started...it shouldn't have left people in limbo. People already in rout by air, for example, should have been able to go through.

But one of those people in transit could rent a car at the airport and accidentally crash it into someone. Maybe your own family member. If it saves only one American...

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[Stormlover]

But one of those people in transit could rent a car at the airport and accidentally crash it into someone. Maybe your own family member. If it saves only one American...

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Knew I shouldn't have said anything...jeez. Vet them and send them back if there are any questions, but let them go if everything checks out. This has to be done the best way possible, nothing is perfect. I mean, it's not like he could announce it would start Feb 1 and then have anyone close to trying something rush in...you can't give advance notice, though he has said he would do it, so it should be no surprise.

 

[David in SW Blount]

Knew I shouldn't have said anything...jeez. Vet them and send them back if there are any questions, but let them go if everything checks out. This has to be done the best way possible, nothing is perfect. I mean, it's not like he could announce it would start Feb 1 and then have anyone close to trying something rush in...you can't give advance notice, though he has said he would do it, so it should be no surprise.

That's better. We must not disobey the Dear Leader. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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[WesL]

#BREAKING: In a blow to President Trump's Executive Order, a federal judge has granted a stay to allow people who landed in US with valid visa to remain in US. This does NOT end the "Muslim Ban", as the court does not have the power to overrule an EO

 

[Stormlover]

That's better. We must not disobey the Dear Leader. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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So, this threat is going to be like this huh. Have fun, carry on.........

 

[Evan]

#BREAKING: In a blow to President Trump's Executive Order, a federal judge has granted a stay to allow people who landed in US with valid visa to remain in US. This does NOT end the "Muslim Ban", as the court does not have the power to overrule an EO

I don't know that there is much precedent for an Executive Order that had this much immediate impact and clear questions of due process and equal treatment under the law, but I don't recall something getting TROed by a federal judge this quickly before. Especially not from a White House Administration.

From this story it sounds like there is a reason for why this doesn't seem to have much precedent:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-travel-ban/index.html

It seems like DHS and the relevant executive departments, including legal review, were left in the dark, and even the White House itself was unsure of what they were actually doing and what it would mean.

You expect an administration to need some time to get its sea legs under it, but this is not the first time Trump's various advisers and strategists have not been in sync, cabinet members have been left in the dark, and the federal government bureaucracy has basically been just told to wing it.

Add to it all that there seems to be an absolutely unprecedented amount of leaks from the Administration, along with evidence of frequent in-fighting and a massive power struggle between different administration advisers, employees, and strategists, and it all seems to be functioning like a reality show on steroids. I'm not just saying that because I don't like Trump. It truly seems like he is so fickle that he just randomly delegates things to the last person he speaks with and changes details on the fly. That just doesn't work with this level of authority and power, and they had better get it figured out soon because getting slapped around by federal judges, and being completely unprepared to discuss or even implement policy won't be something the American people or our allies will tolerate for too long.

 

[Evan]

Knew I shouldn't have said anything...jeez. Vet them and send them back if there are any questions, but let them go if everything checks out. This has to be done the best way possible, nothing is perfect. I mean, it's not like he could announce it would start Feb 1 and then have anyone close to trying something rush in...you can't give advance notice, though he has said he would do it, so it should be no surprise.

Maybe they could have planned for it, gotten legal review, and worked with the experts in each executive department to make sure everyone had some clue of what was going on? Again, I understand growing pains. But this doesn't seem to be that at all. It seems to be Trump and his team just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing if it sticks.

There are serious economic and international relations consequences to doing something like this in the first place. Being completely unprepared and changing details minute by minute and not even attempting to game plan things out just can't be seen as anything other than incompetence.

How many times do you think Kelly, Matt is, Haley, or Tillerson will accept having a hot potato dropped on their head with zero prior warning or planning and be left with cleaning up the mess? They want to serve their country, but nobody wants to be constantly thrown under the bus or made into a laughingstock.

The US Attorney defending the Executive Action was so unprepared and caught off guard that the Judge was starting to express utter disbelief. And this has consequences, because once a TRO has been issued and implemented, it becomes a lot tougher to throw out a new legal argument and have the judiciary reverse a previous decision. Of course they can, and I wouldn't be surprised if an appellate court blocks the TRO, but I also wouldn't be shocked if they refuse to block it and this Executive Order is delayed or requires significant changes or review.

 

[Evan]

So, this threat is going to be like this huh. Have fun, carry on.........

SL, did you not used to get frustrated when certain posters refused to acknowledge legitimate criticism of their party or candidate? Be yourself. You don't have to carry water for Trump or anyone else. If every person no matter what side you were on actually said what they really believe perhaps it would be better for everyone throughout the country.

No one should feel obligated to defend or absorb mistakes made by their party or candidate. Otherwise we end up in a hyperpartisan state. No candidate or party should be above criticism.

 

[maroonedinhsv]

The argument that the ban is the right thing to do because it might save an American life is just amazing. That same argument can be made about gun sales, oil rigs, lawn mowers, microwaves, silly putty, and pinto beans!

 

[maroonedinhsv]

SL, did you not used to get frustrated when certain posters refused to acknowledge legitimate criticism of their party or candidate? Be yourself. You don't have to carry water for Trump or anyone else. If every person no matter what side you were on actually said what they really believe perhaps it would be better for everyone throughout the country.

No one should feel obligated to defend or absorb mistakes made by their party or candidate. Otherwise we end up in a hyperpartisan state. No candidate or party should be above criticism.

Evan, you're being unfair. I distinctly remember SL lambasting opponents of Obama when they would make outlandish claims or hurl insults (including offensive nicknames) at him. Oh, wait - my bad. I distinctly remember SL making outlandish claims and hurling insults including offensive nicknames at Obama, so it's almost the same thing... has lots of the same words, anyway.

 

[Evan]

Is this a joke? So not only has Bannon overruled cabinet officials on whether or not green card holders could be allowed in (see CNN article), he has now been added to the NSC and the freaking Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence have both been removed??????



And DHS/CBP has apparently been ordered to ignore a federal judge's order or is just flat-out ignoring it?



Things are getting very real very fast.

 

[Evan]

Well this is it from me for awhile, but the man below literally wrote THE definitive book on the NSC. Yes, I get it that Trump supporters could not care less, and average Americans likely won't carry either. Doesn't mean it isn't outrageous and worrisome.





The new Trump administration NSC structure also removed the Secretary of Energy (Rick Perry), which is actually impossible as he is required by statute (the law) to be part of the NSC.

 

[apocalyptic_pleasures]

#BREAKING: In a blow to President Trump's Executive Order, a federal judge has granted a stay to allow people who landed in US with valid visa to remain in US. This does NOT end the "Muslim Ban", as the court does not have the power to overrule an EO

Very brave move by that judge and if he could be fired, we have just the prez to do that LOL

 

[apocalyptic_pleasures]

The argument that the ban is the right thing to do because it might save an American life is just amazing. That same argument can be made about gun sales, oil rigs, lawn mowers, microwaves, silly putty, and pinto beans!

Never heard them compared to those types of inanimate objects though a few years ago I recall reading something comparing them more to a rattlesnake. I don't really agree with this extreme idea pasted below and actually found it a comical exaggeration if anything but the Koran does speak of violence as does the Old Testament. It's how serious and literal the more radical Islamist take it all that is concerning and countries where most of these people are from should not be allowed to relocate here. People here in the US should be monitored closely as well since some are already here and we don't know who they are. I am sure that if there is another Orlando night club type of incident under Trump, sweeping changes will take place here which will draw more criticism and protests.

“Here in West Texas, I have rattlesnakes on my place, living among us. I have killed a rattlesnake on the front porch. I have killed a rattlesnake on the back porch. I have killed them in the barn, in the shop and on the driveway.. In fact, I kill every rattlesnake I encounter.

I kill rattlesnakes because I know a rattlesnake will bite me and inject me with poison.
I don’t stop to wonder WHY a rattlesnake will bite me; I know it WILL bite me because, it’s a rattlesnake and that’s what rattlesnakes do. I don’t try to reason with a rattlesnake or have a ”meaningful dialogue” with it…I just kill it. I don’t try to get to know the rattlesnake better,
in order to find a way to live with the rattlesnakes and convince them not to bite me.
I just kill them. I don’t quiz a rattlesnake to see if I can find out where the other snakes are,because; (a) it won’t tell me, and (b) I already know they live on my place, so, I just kill it and move on to the next one.

I don’t look for ways I might be able to change the rattlesnake to a non-poisonous rat snake…
I just kill it. Oh, and on occasion, I accidentally kill a rat snake because I thought it was a rattlesnake at the time. Also, I know for every rattlesnake I kill, two more are lurking in the brush. In my lifetime I will never be able to rid my place of rattlesnakes.

Do I fear them? Not really. Do I respect what they can do to me and my family? Yes!!
And because of that respect, I give them the fair justice they deserve….I kill them…
As a country, we should start giving more thought to the fact that these jihadists are telling the world that their goal is to kill Americans and destroy our way of life.
They have just posted two graphic videos on the internet showing them beheading Americans.
They are serious. They are exactly like rattlesnakes. It is high time for us to start acting accordingly!

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...-logic-when-dealing-with-muslims-3030624.html

 

[David in SW Blount]

The argument that the ban is the right thing to do because it might save an American life is just amazing. That same argument can be made about gun sales, oil rigs, lawn mowers, microwaves, silly putty, and pinto beans!

Banning silly putty is taking things too far!!!!

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[KoD]

Amazing how some folks will tout fears of attacks from foreigners, meanwhile we have 2.1 million assault victims, 15,000 homicides with 10,000 of them firearm-related and all from citizen on citizen violence, per year. I guess that's not a priority to them...

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

I've personally seen four fatal gunshot wounds come in this month in Huntsville alone. To truly care about saving American lives, you'd rather our president spent his time and energy working on things that really matter... Instead of squandering resources on tasks that seem factually irrelevant.

 

[Kory]

This is how I feel on refugee resettlement...I don't like my tax dollars going to resettle folks from foreign countries. We have glaring homelessness in this country....some are veterans who have sacrificed it all for our sake. Why not help resettle them first? It's not so much the danger of refugees because the risk from them are extremely low (although the Somali resettlement in Minnesota has really shown the potential for radicalization from refugees). It's the fact that taxpayer money isn't going to help benefit citizens of this country first....

If I want to help refugees, why can't I donate to Catholic Charities who has helped resettle many? It shouldn't be the burden of the taxpayer here....

Of course, better vetting of those folks will benefit everybody. There's no arguing against that from me.

 

[KoD]

This is how I feel on refugee resettlement...I don't like my tax dollars going to resettle folks from foreign countries. We have glaring homelessness in this country....some are veterans who have sacrificed it all for our sake. Why not help resettle them first? It's not so much the danger of refugees because the risk from them are extremely low (although the Somali resettlement in Minnesota has really shown the potential for radicalization from refugees). It's the fact that taxpayer money isn't going to help benefit citizens of this country first....

If I want to help refugees, why can't I donate to Catholic Charities who has helped resettle many? It shouldn't be the burden of the taxpayer here....

Of course, better vetting of those folks will benefit everybody. There's no arguing against that from me.

That's a logical and perfectly reasonable perspective on the matter. Unfortunately the actions taken by our president don't just encompass restricting resettlement of foreigners. Instead he has taken it many steps too far and as a result there's negatives consequences for the good and productive people in our society that are currently overseas and furthermore, tarnishes our countries reputation as a bastion of freedom, liberty and equal rights for all people. I know you're not explicitly defending Trumps actions but it's outrageous to me that some people are. Your view is respectable, Trumps is not.

"I had always hoped that this land might become a safe & agreeable Asylum to the virtuous & persecuted part of mankind, to whatever nation they might belong." -George Washington