Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[PerryW]

They don't need any new reason to not like us. They'll hate us even if we evacuated the middle east. It's all excuses. We have to do what we have to do and thank goodness we have a President that isn't scared to do politically incorrect things to increase our safety.

Very true, but when the president decides to put the hammer down, he better know darn well what he's doing and be prepared for any and all ramifications it may cause. Nobody is more opposed to allowing potential terrorists (and illegal aliens) into America than me, but am just afraid Trump didn't think about all the ramifications that this Executive Order might create before signing it.

 

[Evan]

Over half the refugees we took in last year were from Syria or Somalia...that is a recipe for disaster. Something had to change. I applaud him for finally saying that we have to get a grip on what we are doing. Not doing anything because some may "radicalize"(since when do they need another reason?) is like the sanctuary cities lame excuse of not reporting criminals because then need them to tell them who other criminals are.

What a surprise that you have absolutely ZERO idea of what you are talking about. Is anyone here even remotely surprised?

It is very cute that you think Trump's Executive Order only applies to refugees from Syria or Somalia. Of course that is a complete fabrication and 100% false. Trump's Executive Order applies to EVERYONE from Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Ethiopia, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen except for a handful of visa categories required per treaty requirements (NATO/UN workers & some other international orgs, and foreign diplomats). Trump's order even applies to Legal PERMANENT Residents (known to some as greencard holders) no matter how long they have lived PERMANENTLY in the United States.

Banning greencard holders means someone that might have lived in the US for 25 years, now abroad on vacation or for a work project, will now be rejected entry back to their home when they return. Doesn't matter if they've lived here 25 years, own property here, and when deported to their "home" country will be killed by that country's government. It also applies to thousands of Iraqi and Iranian men and women that have served our government and military as translators, spies, or fled repressive regimes dozens of years ago. If they are not a US Citizen, and they were out of the country when this ban was implemented, or leave while it is in place, they will not be allowed back. Doesn't matter if they are a single parent and they have two children waiting on them at home. Can't come back.

It also applies to people with valid, previously issued immigration visas (family members of a US citizen, spouse joining their LPR spouse, PhD, master's,and bachelor seeking students (as well as all K-12 students), scientists, university employees, famous dissidents, etc). The list goes on and on as far as people with either Permanent Legal Residence, an immigrant visa allowing them to immigrate and adjust their status to Permanent Legal Resident, etc. It obviously also applies to non-immigrant visas of students, businessmen, cultural exchange, and any other visitor or routine travel. For instance, a close family member of mine works at an international company based here in Birmingham. They have distributors in Iran. I've met many of them before. Great people. Many of them have American family, Legal Permanent Residence, or ties to the US. There is a meeting in two weeks in the United States for all distributors. The Iranians will be blocked from attending. A meeting, by the way, that they paid thousands to attend up to a year ago. A meeting that is vital to their conducting of business on behalf of an Alabama based corporation.

But, wait! There's more! It gets even better. Trump's Executive Order requires that DHS (along with the SoS & DNI) request any and every piece of information it wants from other foreign nations pertaining to the identity, security profile, background, history, etc of anyone attempting to apply for a visa to the US, has a visa, attempts to enter the US, or interacts with a port of entry for immigrant or non-immigrant entry and travel. Any foreign country refusing to provide EVERY single piece of requested information will be added to the ban list. What does that mean? Basically, it means that Trump has ordered the DHS (along with the SoS & DNI) to "determine the information needed from ANY country" that they believe is necessary for security/public safety checks. Let me break than down even further. Essentially, Trump is telling the DHS to consult with State and the Director of National Intelligence, and create a list of data/information that they want from foreign countries about their citizens that attempt to immigrate or travel to the US for any reason. So that means that DHS can decide they need to know the bank account balance of every traveler from Germany, the bra size of every female traveler from Poland, or even the Twitter history of any reference to Trump from every British traveler, etc.

If any country refuses to supply the requested information, or is precluded from providing that information because they don't have it, or are not allowed to provide/possess because of their own privacy laws/constitution, that country will be added to the ban list and every citizen or national of that country will be banned from travel to the US unless they are in one of the tiny required exempt categories (member of the UN/NATO) or a US Citizen.

DHS: Immigration ban applies to American permanent residents from Iran, Syria, Sudan, Ethiopia, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-greencard-idUSKBN15C0KX
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/316670-trump-refugee-ban-bars-green-card-holders-report

Full text of Trump's Executive Order banning all but a tiny number of foreign treaty required visa holders and order to compile a list of data/information they require from other foreign countries:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/...slim-executive-order-trump.html?_r=0&referer=

Please tell me how banning residents that have lived in the USA for 20+ years is "getting a grip on things." Isn't it actually just security theater from a reality TV show host that actually has serious international implications and irreparably damages our credibility, image, and moral standing in the entire World?

 

[Evan]

Very true, but when the president decides to put the hammer down, he better know darn well what he's doing and be prepared for any and all ramifications it may cause. Nobody is more opposed to allowing potential terrorists (and illegal aliens) into America than me, but am just afraid Trump didn't think about all the ramifications that this Executive Order might create before signing it.

This is exactly the issue, Perry. You get it. He either didn't think about the ramifications, didn't understand the ramifications, or didn't care about the ramifications. Any of the three are not good for a leader in his position, but all three may apply to Trump in this situation.

I have not universally condemned every idea or statement that Trump has made. I have given him credit when it was due, and I started out the day after the election hoping and praying that he would be an excellent President. But just because I'm a longstanding critic of Trump (as are several others on this forum like Perry) doesn't mean I bark about every thing Trump does or attribute every misstep to malice. But when appropriate, I'm going to speak out as others have done. That's our duty as defenders of the Constitution. This isn't political for me. It is about life, liberty, justice, and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[Evan]

Over half the refugees we took in last year were from Syria or Somalia...that is a recipe for disaster. Something had to change. I applaud him for finally saying that we have to get a grip on what we are doing. Not doing anything because some may "radicalize"(since when do they need another reason?) is like the sanctuary cities lame excuse of not reporting criminals because then need them to tell them who other criminals are.

Let's talk facts. I know they don't matter to you as you now ignore any and all information that contradicts your Facebook generated beliefs, but other people do care about the truth.

"The top three countries where deadly terrorists have come from are: Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Egypt. Together they all accounted for 94.1 percent of all American deaths in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil committed by the foreign-born. None of those countries are on the list."

https://www.cato.org/blog/guide-trumps-executive-order-limit-migration-national-security-reasons

"Foreigners from the seven nations Trump subjected to a complete immigration/travel ban have killed zero Americans in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1975 and the end of 2015. Six Iranians, six Sudanese, two Somalis, two Iraqis, and one Yemini have been convicted of attempting or carrying out terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. Zero Libyans or Syrians have been convicted of planning a terrorist attack on U.S. soil during that time period."

https://www.cato.org/blog/little-national-security-benefit-trumps-executive-order-immigration

You and Trump both assert the refugee program is a major security risk. What do the facts say?

"From 1975 to the end of 2015, 20 refugees have been convicted of attempting or committing terrorism on U.S. soil, and only three Americans have been killed in attacks committed by refugees—all in the 1970s. Zero Americans have been killed by Syrian refugees in a terrorist attack on U.S. soil. The annual chance of an American dying in a terrorist attack committed by a refugee is one in 3.6 billion. The other 17 convictions have mainly been for aiding or attempting to join foreign terrorists.

https://www.cato.org/blog/little-national-security-benefit-trumps-executive-order-immigration

You have a 10-15x time greater chance of dying from a coconut falling on your head or a shark attack than from a terror attack committed by a refugee.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/scientists-calculate-odd-ways-die-282884

"Foreign-born people from Syria, Libya, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Iran, and Yemen have not successfully killed anybody in a U.S. terrorist attack." Armenia, Croatia, Cuba, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, Palestine, Taiwan, Trinidad & Tobago have all had citizens kill Americans in a terror attack on US soil. 3013 out of 3024 terror deaths were caused by nationals from Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Pakistan, Kuwait, Egypt, and the United Arab Emirates. None of those countries are on Trump's list. All but 11 terror deaths came from countries that Trump DID NOT include. In other words, Trump did not include the countries whose citizens were responsible for 99.6% of terror deaths in the United States. All data is from 1975-2015. Maybe Trump isn't just lack in political correctness but also lacking in logic, reasoning, and intelligence? Because why would you focus your efforts on the 7 countries that have never had a citizen kill an American on American soil and ignore the Top 3 (Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Egypt)? If it is a "national emergency" then why is it just focused on what Trump "feels" is a problem instead of on the identified hotspots? How does it lead to a safer United States by blocking Legal Permanent Residents from returning? Think they are going to want to risk talking to the government if they spot something suspicious in the future? Could it be that Trump just does stuff because he is a showman that is trying to create a show for the American people that don't know any better or are so slavishly devoted to him that they won't question him?

I mean this would be like Obama signing an executive order on gun control that banned black powder rifles only. Don't you think Conservatives would have ridiculed him for such an act?

https://www.cato.org/blog/guide-trumps-executive-order-limit-migration-national-security-reasons

 

[locomusic01]

Could it be that Trump just does stuff because he is a showman that is trying to create a show for the American people that don't know any better or are so slavishly devoted to him that they won't question him?

This is one of the most concerning things, and it's only exacerbated by the fact that Trump has systematically gone about delegitimizing any institution capable of holding him accountable. Political opponents are attacked, discredited and portrayed as "enemies." Ditto the press, where only favorable news (and the organizations that peddle it) is embraced and everything else is dubbed "fake news." Lies are obfuscated or flat-out denied, even when there's incontrovertible proof. Facts have become a matter of opinion and convenience. The only "truth" is whatever the Glorious Leader says is the truth.

This - among many other things - should be deeply concerning to anyone who loves this country and what it is intended to represent. Instead, millions of people lap it up because they've been suckered in by a brutish carnival barker whose only real skill is appealing to the lowest common denominator and feeding fears and anxieties without actually having sensible plans for addressing them.

 

[apocalyptic_pleasures]

This shouldn't be necessary for Trump to do this because we shouldn't have had such an open border and accepted refugees so freely in the first place. What happens to these people should be handled by their country not ours. We have our own problems to tend to. If the situation were reversed would we be so welcome there? I do think the order should have included more countries since terrorists have come from others also. Overall I think people in this country as well as others have become soft and overly sensitive due to the politically correctness of the previous administration so Trumps moves are coming as a bit of a shock until people toughen up again. Governments especially in the South including Alabama were alarmed by Obama's move to allow all of these refugees in and I'm sure they are glad to see Trump reverse this. On the other side, states like California are not so happy.

These were from 2015 and the original opposition to taking in the refugees. How much softening of peoples minds by the govt and media occurred thereafter?

At least half of the country's governors are refusing to take in Syrian refugees in their states amid heightened security concerns following Friday's terrorist attacks in Paris.

Michigan and Alabama were the first states in the country to refuse relocating Syrian refugees on Sunday, and they have now been joined by Oklahoma, Nebraska, Idaho, Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Indiana, Illinois, Massachusetts, Ohio, Arizona, North Carolina, Florida, Wisconsin, Mississippi, New Hampshire, Georgia, Maine, Kansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina and Iowa, some of which say more information is needed before accepting more refugees.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/states-refuse-accept-syrian-refugees-wake/story?id=35231800

Major threats that have occurred since 9⁄11, not necessarily all, but the major individuals that have been stopped, those individuals that have come out of refugee programs," Bentley said. "That's what I've been told. "

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/politics/alabama-governor-robert-bentley-refugees/index.html

 

[David in SW Blount]

This - among many other things - should be deeply concerning to anyone who loves this country and what it is intended to represent. Instead, millions of people lap it up because they've been suckered in by a brutish carnival barker whose only real skill is appealing to the lowest common denominator and feeding fears and anxieties without actually having sensible plans for addressing them.

It's like they're trying to follow the Nazi playbook but it just ain't working in this age of instant global communications via social media. But seeing so many Americans, and especially Evangelical Christians, falling hook, line, and sinker for Trump's nonsense makes it very clear how authoritarians rise to power.

 

[Evan]

This shouldn't be necessary for Trump to do this because we shouldn't have had such an open border and accepted refugees so freely in the first place. What happens to these people should be handled by their country not ours. We have our own problems to tend to. If the situation were reversed would we be so welcome there? I do think the order should have included more countries since terrorists have come from others also. Overall I think people in this country as well as others have become soft and overly sensitive due to the politically correctness of the previous administration so Trumps moves are coming as a bit of a shock until people toughen up again. Governments especially in the South including Alabama were alarmed by Obama's move to allow all of these refugees in and I'm sure they are glad to see Trump reverse this. On the other side, states like California are not so happy.

These were from 2015 and the original opposition to taking in the refugees. How much softening of peoples minds by the govt and media occurred thereafter?



http://abcnews.go.com/US/states-refuse-accept-syrian-refugees-wake/story?id=35231800



http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/politics/alabama-governor-robert-bentley-refugees/index.html

Try to catch up. I've already posted actual facts that show very few terrorist attacks can be attributed to refugees. One is 3.6 billion chance you would be killed by a refugee.

Furthermore, it is clear you aren't familiar at all with what Trump's order actually says and does. Try to be informed at least if you are going to stake out a bold opinion. The number of refugees impacted by Trump's order is a few thousand at most. The number of American Legal Permanent Residents born in other countries, and British, Canadian, German, French, Israeli, Russian citizens that happened to have been born in those countries 7 is much much much greater than the number of refugees and they are banned as well.

Also banned are any businessman, student, investor, or legal immigrant from those countries.

You really think Legal Permanent Residents that have lived here for 20 years and served in our military should be banned from returning home to their American citizen spouse and children because they took a trip to the Bahamas?

BTW, please post any stats or facts that back up refugees committing terrorism on American soil. Please also post information about the number of refugees that were being allowed in across an open border. Most important, of course, is any information you have about refugees committing acts of terror considering more natural born US citizens have committed acts of terror on US soil than foreign refugees have.

You are 15 times more likely to die from a coconut falling on your head than dying from a terror attack perpetrated by a refugee. Do you support a ban on coconut trees in the United States? I'm just pointing out how your stance is illogical and solely predicated on hysteria.

 

[Evan]

It's like they're trying to follow the Nazi playbook but it just ain't working in this age of instant global communications via social media. But seeing so many Americans, and especially Evangelical Christians, falling hook, line, and sinker for Trump's nonsense makes it very clear how authoritarians rise to power.

Because, as you see in this thread, people just read the headlines and assume Trump is just banning refugees, and that refugees ever were a measurable source of terror in the first place. More people were killed at Columbine than by 40+ years of refugees... but people believe what they have heard on Facebook and don't actually research reality.

They actually believe it is OK to ban a Legal Permanent Resident that has lived here for 20+ years just because he took his wife and kids on vacation to the Caribbean.

 

[locomusic01]

It's like they're trying to follow the Nazi playbook but it just ain't working in this age of instant global communications via social media. But seeing so many Americans, and especially Evangelical Christians, falling hook, line, and sinker for Trump's nonsense makes it very clear how authoritarians rise to power.

It certainly does smack of fascism. Now, just to be clear, I don't believe that Donald Trump actually aspires to be a fascist or that he's an evil mastermind or whatever. Just the opposite, in fact. I believe he's an incredibly ignorant, unqualified and breathtakingly narcissistic man who ran for the presidency because he wanted the attention and ego-stroking but didn't necessarily believe he'd win and didn't much understand the magnitude of the job. Now that he has won, he's in far over his head but he obviously isn't going to admit it, either to himself or anyone else. And in his narcissism, he's embraced many of the same tactics used by fascists to gain and exert power and protect his ego.

He very well may believe that he's just doing what's best for America (I'm not sure I buy that, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt), but as they say, some of the most terrible things have been done with the best intentions.

 

[Stormlover]

Not going to read through Evan's books, except to say this. Typical, a personal attack starts it off, so not even going to start on this new board with you, "What a surprise that you have absolutely ZERO idea of what you are talking about. Is anyone here even remotely surprised?"
but Yes, I only pointed out those two countries where over half came from...that's WHY I pointed those two out. Where you take that from me thinking those are the only two is amazing.,I don't need you to tell me the others, thanks. Always talking down when there is no need.

 

[Stormlover]

This shouldn't be necessary for Trump to do this because we shouldn't have had such an open border and accepted refugees so freely in the first place. What happens to these people should be handled by their country not ours. We have our own problems to tend to. If the situation were reversed would we be so welcome there? I do think the order should have included more countries since terrorists have come from others also. Overall I think people in this country as well as others have become soft and overly sensitive due to the politically correctness of the previous administration so Trumps moves are coming as a bit of a shock until people toughen up again. Governments especially in the South including Alabama were alarmed by Obama's move to allow all of these refugees in and I'm sure they are glad to see Trump reverse this. On the other side, states like California are not so happy.

These were from 2015 and the original opposition to taking in the refugees. How much softening of peoples minds by the govt and media occurred thereafter?



http://abcnews.go.com/US/states-refuse-accept-syrian-refugees-wake/story?id=35231800



http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/politics/alabama-governor-robert-bentley-refugees/index.html

That's old news...look at the date. Turns out the states CAN'T refuse under federal law to do that, so it was a moot point, though they should be able to not have it forced on them.

 

[apocalyptic_pleasures]

Try to catch up. I've already posted actual facts that show very few terrorist attacks can be attributed to refugees. One is 3.6 billion chance you would be killed by a refugee.

Furthermore, it is clear you aren't familiar at all with what Trump's order actually says and does. Try to be informed at least if you are going to stake out a bold opinion. The number of refugees impacted by Trump's order is a few thousand at most. The number of American Legal Permanent Residents born in other countries, and British, Canadian, German, French, Israeli, Russian citizens that happened to have been born in those countries 7 is much much much greater than the number of refugees and they are banned as well.

Also banned are any businessman, student, investor, or legal immigrant from those countries.

You really think Legal Permanent Residents that have lived here for 20 years and served in our military should be banned from returning home to their American citizen spouse and children because they took a trip to the Bahamas?

BTW, please post any stats or facts that back up refugees committing terrorism on American soil. Please also post information about the number of refugees that were being allowed in across an open border. Most important, of course, is any information you have about refugees committing acts of terror considering more natural born US citizens have committed acts of terror on US soil than foreign refugees have.

You are 15 times more likely to die from a coconut falling on your head than dying from a terror attack perpetrated by a refugee. Do you support a ban on coconut trees in the United States? I'm just pointing out how your stance is illogical and solely predicated on hysteria.

Yes this is true that 99.9% of the people banned are innocent and should not be banned. However Who's to say they are all refugees and there isn't just one black sheep ISIS person mixed in the influx? If there is just one attacker prevented from entry by this and it happens to save an Americans life which could be any of our friends/family then what Trump done was a good thing IMO. Also this is not a permanent ban but 90 days. He just got into office and needs to stop the ongoing flood of immigrants and develop a screening process before allowing them to continue in. As far as Americans that may also be banned from re-entry there have been some who have been caught by the feds on social media communicating with ISIS from here and were interested in joining them. If not caught by the feds, they may have trained by ISIS and be returning to carry out a mission. Every person coming from that region should be thoroughly screened before entry as well as re-entry.

 

[locomusic01]

If there is just one attacker prevented from entry by this and it happens to save an Americans life which could be any of our friends/family then what Trump done was a good thing IMO.

This is essentially a roundabout way of saying "the ends justify the means," which is a positively terrifying approach to governance.

 

[gangstonc]

Yes this is true that 99.9% of the people banned are innocent and should not be banned. However Who's to say they are all refugees and there isn't just one black sheep ISIS person mixed in the influx? If there is just one attacker prevented from entry by this and it happens to save an Americans life which could be any of our friends/family then what Trump done was a good thing IMO. Also this is not a permanent ban but 90 days. He just got into office and needs to stop the ongoing flood of immigrants and develop a screening process before allowing them to continue in. As far as Americans that may also be banned from re-entry there have been some who have been caught by the feds on social media communicating with ISIS from here and were interested in joining them. If not caught by the feds, they may have trained by ISIS and be returning to carry out a mission. Every person coming from that region should be thoroughly screened before entry as well as re-entry.

It's not 99.9%. It's 99.99938%.

"Of the 3,252,493 refugees admitted to the US from 1975-2015, 20 were terrorists, 0.00062% of the total." https://t.co/1S3XcmJAeL

This ban is ridiculous. Supporting it is short sighted and simple minded.

 

[Evan]

Not going to read through Evan's books, except to say this. Typical, a personal attack starts it off, so not even going to start on this new board with you, "What a surprise that you have absolutely ZERO idea of what you are talking about. Is anyone here even remotely surprised?"
but Yes, I only pointed out those two countries where over half came from...that's WHY I pointed those two out. Where you take that from me thinking those are the only two is amazing.,I don't need you to tell me the others, thanks. Always talking down when there is no need.

Flew over your head yet again. You are conflating Trump's Executive Order with stopping refugees. As has already been mentioned ad-nauseam, very few refugees are being impacted, and the ones that are have never ever committed a fatal attack on US soil.

It is not a personal attack to make a factual statement that you have zero idea of what you are talking about. Almost everyone here is criticizing the broad applicability of this EO to hundreds of thousands of immigrant visa holders and legal permanent residents as well as millions of non-immigrant visa holders. Refugees are a tiny part of Trump's order which is what you are missing. You came into the thread talking about how half of refugees is a great start... blah blah blah. You are referring to something that is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall application of the order.

10,000 Syrian refugees a year really doesn't matter when you have millions of Egyptian, Pakistani, Saudi, Kuwaiti, Emirates, and Lebanese entries from LPRs, immigrants, and visitors/students/businessmen. Since 99.96% of fatal terror attacks came from those specific countries, you'd think you'd be concerned with those millions of entries instead of stopping Syrian refugees which account for 0.0% of fatal US attacks over the past 40 years.

I'm trying to help you see you are being scammed, but you don't want to listen or hear anything that contradicts your Obama.

 

[Evan]

Yes this is true that 99.9% of the people banned are innocent and should not be banned. However Who's to say they are all refugees and there isn't just one black sheep ISIS person mixed in the influx? If there is just one attacker prevented from entry by this and it happens to save an Americans life which could be any of our friends/family then what Trump done was a good thing IMO. Also this is not a permanent ban but 90 days. He just got into office and needs to stop the ongoing flood of immigrants and develop a screening process before allowing them to continue in. As far as Americans that may also be banned from re-entry there have been some who have been caught by the feds on social media communicating with ISIS from here and were interested in joining them. If not caught by the feds, they may have trained by ISIS and be returning to carry out a mission. Every person coming from that region should be thoroughly screened before entry as well as re-entry.

Who's to say you aren't an ISIS infiltrator?

 

[gangstonc]

the choice of countries made by trump is also interesting. If we are looking to stop terrorism, why isn't Saudi Arabia on the list? Any Trump supporters care to tackle that one?

 

[Evan]

Yes this is true that 99.9% of the people banned are innocent and should not be banned. However Who's to say they are all refugees and there isn't just one black sheep ISIS person mixed in the influx? If there is just one attacker prevented from entry by this and it happens to save an Americans life which could be any of our friends/family then what Trump done was a good thing IMO.Also this is not a permanent ban but 90 days. He just got into office and needs to stop the ongoing flood of immigrants and develop a screening process before allowing them to continue in. As far as Americans that may also be banned from re-entry there have been some who have been caught by the feds on social media communicating with ISIS from here and were interested in joining them. If not caught by the feds, they may have trained by ISIS and be returning to carry out a mission. Every person coming from that region should be thoroughly screened before entry as well as re-entry.

Ironically your argument doesn't work because a refugee from those countries has never killed anyone in a terrorist attack in the United States.

As far as your vague claim about "some" who have been communicating with ISIS from here in the United States, please provide sources showing they were from one of the seven countries listed in Trump's Executive Order, and then demonstrate whether they were Legal Permanent Residents, non-immigrant travelers/visitors, or someone who recently entered on an immigrant visa and is adjusting status. Because last time I checked, this is the USA and people are innocent until proven guilty. Or does the Constitution only apply when Obama is President and Democrats are in power?

Finally, please provide evidence or proof of a flood of immigrants from the seven countries that Trump's Executive Order applies to. Thanks. Let's stick to the facts unless this is all just about opinion. If so, then yeah I think anyone supporting this ban is an ISIS terrorist. I saw it somewhere on Facebook.

 

[Evan]

the choice of countries made by trump is also interesting. If we are looking to stop terrorism, why isn't Saudi Arabia on the list? Any Trump supporters care to tackle that one?

We are all wasting our oxygen. Trump could have banned lederhosen from Germany as a terrorism reducing measure and they'd still be praising it and ignoring all criticism. Same people that were gung-ho to invade Iraq and 13 years later try to gas light us all and claim they voted for Trump because they are tired of endless war and unilateral military action.

You won't get a factual or evidence based response from anyone that supports this. You will only get a steady dose of emotion and rhetoric wrapped in faux-nationalism and absurd hyperbole draped with implausible and laughable what-ifs.

When you are defending the illogical and irrational your cognitive dissonance forces you to embue yourself in a cloud of fantasy.