This is my last post on this. Trump did not collude with the Russians. If he did we would have seen it by now. Meeting with a Russian is not against the law. However, the DNC and Clinton campaign were in deep with the Russians. The Mueller investigation is nothing more than the democrats and the establishment (both Repubs and Dems) refusing to accept the outcome of an election. Firing Comey after being given advice to do so by the Deputy Director of the FBI is not a crime. 63 million people voter for Trump fully aware of his flaws and warts. We did not care then and don't care now. We just did not want the evil Hillary Clinton as president. We wanted to stop the march towards Western European socialism. And Trump has done that to a large part. He has erased Obama's legacy and that makes me happy. Trump has been the most conservative president since Reagan. He is not destroying conservatism. He most likely will be re-elected. I enjoy watching Trump destroy the democrats and their supporters in the media. Any way, y'all enjoy trashing The Trump and his administration. I hope it makes you all feel good about yourself.
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Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread
- Thread starter Bama Ravens
- Start date
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Arcadia
Member
Do you ever address anyone's posts with actual substance? I know several people have asked you very specific questions and you have managed to dodge and weave them all, make yourself absent for extended periods of time, and then come back with some fingerwagging post about how everyone is just mean and unfair to Trump. Don't with that, "I hope it makes you all feel better..." condescending crap. You got people here who hold Trump's feet the fire. If people like YOU would hold his feet to the fire, I daresay, he would have to make more of an effort to control his mouth. As it is, his blind followers make excuses for him. The man cannot do anything wrong and that is never good, Matt. Never. All the times we discussed Obama's blind followers, and here we are with people following Trump right off the same cliff. We aren't the media here. I have no damn agenda. And yet for some season anyone who oposes Trump gets lumped in with these media types. Oooohhhhh, it's alllll a conspiracy. They got to me. They're telling me what to say on a weather forum. How 'bout there are still conservative thinkers out in the world who didn't sell their souls for a little capital.
xJownage
Member
As long as are political climate is as volatile and anger fueled, there will always be a primary following of the president from his/her side that is completely blind and unable to think for themselves. Don't kid yourself into thinking that will ever change; all you can do is present to people why they're wrong and let the intellectually honest people decide elections.
Evan
Member
1. Collusion info would be held very close to the vest by both Trump and the Special Counsel. Neither have anything to gain by releasing any information about potential collusion. But, it is notable that Mueller seems MORE interested in collusion now than back in January. Additionally, we've yet to hear Trump answer (or get a full explanation) about Flynn's dealing with Kislyak and the Russians. Was he doing so at Trump's request? If not, why didn't he fire him for that as soon as he found out from DOJ? Remember, Trump has claimed he didn't KNOW that Flynn had discussed sanctions with the Russians. More so than lying to the FBI, I'd think that negotiating sanctions unilaterally without the President's knowledge and consent would be absolutely insane and all the more reason to have immediately fired Flynn. There was no reason to "wait for more info" and to keep trying to sniff around the DOJ investigation if you had NOT authorized Flynn to discuss sanctions with the Russians. But, if you HAD authorized Flynn to discuss sanctions with the Russians, how could you claim you didn't know about his calls? Trump wants to have it both ways. He has to pick. Either he knew or he didn't. Both have stark implications.
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/06/...story-point-to-collusion-not-obstruction/#top
The above link discusses what I mentioned as well as much more on this topic. It raises some pretty damning questions for the admin.
2. Andrew McCabe did not recommend that Comey be fired. Please post a source for that as it would boggle the mind. I assume, instead, that you are referring to DAG Rosenstein. The man who appointed a Special Counsel, in part, to determine if Trump fired Comey to obstruct justice. There's been plenty written on this subject. Assuming that Rosenstein doing his job (he was asked to write a letter to make the case so he wrote it) belies his own personal beliefs on the subject is rather absurd. Attorneys make arguments all the time that don't reflect what they actually think or believe. The good news is that sooner or later DAG Rosenstein will have to speak in regards to the infamous letter. If it was in any way exonerating...Trump and his allies wouldn't be constantly attacking Rosenstein.
3. Perhaps we should let President Reagan weigh in on one of Trump's most recent policy decisions:
What's your argument, Matt? That you know better than President Reagan about what President Reagan thinks?
Kory
Member
I wanted Trump out of office the minute he unconstitutionally directed the DOJ to implement a bump stock ban. That involves changing the definition of what a machine gun is and can be broadly interpreted to include semi-autos when we get even more of a gun grabber in office. Then when he floated around the idea of an assault weapons ban sitting next to a giddy Dianne $hitstain, that was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me.
I will NEVER give an inch on my constitutionally guaranteed right to defend myself. I know...I'm probably the only one on this board who feels this passionate about the right to gun ownership, but it's something I hold dear to my heart. Trump has arguably done more to hurt the second amendment than Obama did in 8 years. Whether it be intentionally or because he seems to bend whichever way the political wind blows to make him seem favorable, it's inexcusable. I wanted to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. I hoped a flawed man could MAYBE, just maybe, forward a conservative agenda. He has in some instances, but he has caused irreparable harm for me to outweigh the good over the bad.
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Evan
Member
Well, perhaps THIS is why we disagree. See, a lot of us tried to provide well-reasoned arguments against Trump back during the primary season. Trump supporters weren't interested in debate, dissent, or any type of intellectually honest discussion. The response was always some variation of #MAGA, or "it triggers the libtards so I know it must be correct."
Instead, I have found that pointing out their utterly embarrassing hypocrisy and constant contradictions tends to be more effective. Are you acquainted with the theory of cognitive dissonance? It is incredibly uncomfortable for anyone that isn't a sociopath/psychopath. So, people either have to justify their conflicting belief, ignore/deny any information that causes a conflict, or change their conflicting belief. They're coping strategies to deal with extreme discomfort at holding a contradictory position.
By being confrontational, provocative, and constantly providing well-sourced information to highlight the hypocrisy of someone's position, you can take away the comfort they're accustomed to getting when they use one of the coping strategies. So when someone uses, for example, Gateway Pundit as a justification for one of Trump's actions (or to deny that their beliefs are in conflict), you impeach the hell out of that source. That causes them to be unable to easily relieve the pressure of their conflicted belief. They can't ignore it (another coping strategy) because you baited the hook so effectively that they are already responding. The hook is firmly in their mouth. That's when you've narrowed their options for them and they're forced to concede. Generally that's when you'll hear "well, I don't really care anyway because I support Trump and trust him." But, deep down they haven't been able to effectively relieve the pressure. It eats at people. Over time, that adds up. Sure, they're not going to stop supporting Trump. But privately they'll be more likely to grumble about his tweets and inability to get out of his own way. It is a marathon, not a sprint. The dissonance accumulates over time.
Evan
Member
You're not the only one.
We're in complete agreement here. I don't support any attempts to regulate firearms. The only thing I will support are laws to loosen regulations, and that's if they don't actually trade-off new regulation for things we should already have. Like suppressors and SBRs.
I want the NFA to be repealed along with the Hughes amendment. I want 50 state reciprocity.
Trump has not been a friend to gun owners in any way, shape, form, or fashion.
gangstonc
Member
It appears as though Manafort has been tampering with witnesses...
Kory
Member
And when Steve Scalise (a victim of gun violence himself) tried to attach nationwide reciprocity in a bipartisan meeting, Trump shut him down no hesitations. I'm sorry, why do I become a criminal when I drive from Arizona to California? I'd love for someone to explain how a law-abiding citizen gains a rap sheet just by driving over a state border. It's time for Congress to enforce the 2nd amendment and not to continue to let states to infringe on rights, much like the South did with Jim Crow.
I guess it is a product of my upbringing in New Orleans as to why I'm very passionate on this subject. Candidates stances on the 2nd amendment will determine whether I vote for them or not. It is the litmus test so to say. I don't want my safety in the hands of the government...they've proven themselves incompetent on many fronts on many occasions. I've seen what a break down in law and order looks like after a disaster. The people who are supposed to protect you...yeah, they aren't there. You won't be able to get help. You are responsible 100% for your own survival. People who haven't been through that look at me crazy and think I'm a doomsday prepper...well, it happened in a major city in the United States almost 13 years ago.
Evan
Member
So, explain to me why Trump's last tweet about Paul Manafort before yesterday was NINE months ago on October 31st, 2017, yet he suddenly tweeted about him yesterday to try to distance himself and his campaign from Manafort? It's obvious Trump knew about Mueller's plan to ask that Manafort's bond be revoked for witness tampering. How the hell did Trump know? Why did he know? This is obstruction of justice in broad daylight, and saying "I dare you to do something about it."
Seriously, I'm willing to listen to any counter-arguments. How is Trump's recent push for pardons and his random tweet about Manafort (after 9 months of saying nothing) not obstruction of justice? If Obama or Clinton had pulled such a stunt we'd have rightly crucified him.
It's crystal clear Trump has to be impeached. He will stop at nothing to protect his ego, pride, and his wrongdoing from being revealed. I believe the American people will not currently support an impeachment. This is a complex situation, and the damning facts and evidence have not been made public. Until that time, and to prevent further damage to our country, I hope people are ready to act if Trump attempts to fire Mueller or anyone at DOJ, or attempts to pardon his associates or himself. The American public will have to take to the streets in that scenario because the Republicans in Congress are spineless and only care about the bad acts of Democratic Presidents.
Seriously, I'm willing to listen to any counter-arguments. How is Trump's recent push for pardons and his random tweet about Manafort (after 9 months of saying nothing) not obstruction of justice? If Obama or Clinton had pulled such a stunt we'd have rightly crucified him.
It's crystal clear Trump has to be impeached. He will stop at nothing to protect his ego, pride, and his wrongdoing from being revealed. I believe the American people will not currently support an impeachment. This is a complex situation, and the damning facts and evidence have not been made public. Until that time, and to prevent further damage to our country, I hope people are ready to act if Trump attempts to fire Mueller or anyone at DOJ, or attempts to pardon his associates or himself. The American public will have to take to the streets in that scenario because the Republicans in Congress are spineless and only care about the bad acts of Democratic Presidents.
gangstonc
Member
Foxnews showing eagles player praying but saying they are kneeling. Error prone media.
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Kory
Member
It’s great seeing Clinton squirm after that Today show interview and the blowback regarding his Lewinsky comments. Complete disgrace to America.
gangstonc
Member
Remember when the Trump admin was trying to say the FBI had planted a spy in their campaign?
Kory
Member
LOL. Trump uninvited the Eagles for anthem kneeling. Problem is, none actually knelt during the anthem.
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/1/no-philadelphia-eagles-players-knelt-anthem-2017/
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/1/no-philadelphia-eagles-players-knelt-anthem-2017/
Evan
Member
Anyone involved should face serious criminal charges. Swatting should be a felony. I strongly disagree with Hogg's message and tactics, but this is clearly wrong and extremely dangerous behavior.
Evan
Member
Abuse of power. Brazen attempt to politically pressure the IG to get the President's desired results.
Until cabinet officials start resigning in protest, (or get their act together on the 25th amendment) and Congress starts pushing back, he's only going to get worse.
Remember the hopeful days of thinking the Trump "pivot" to decency and normalcy had to be just around the corner?
Just imagine what a decent GOP candidate could be doing today had they won. A roaring economy, a Congress willing to pass ANY long-standing GOP policy request, etc.
The true damage Trump is doing isn't just the stuff I've posted about over the past few days. It is the lost opportunity -- a wasted Presidency. It should enrage all Conservatives.
Evan
Member
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-access-to-us-financial-markets-senate-report
Obama admin has some explaining to do. From reading the article, it does seem like the Obama admin misled Congress. But, I'm going to read the Senate report myself once I get a moment. If it is overtly partisan BS then there may be less of an issue here. We'll see. At first blush it doesn't sound like a major scandal, but simply a reiteration of the dishonest BS Obama and his staff pulled to get the Iran deal done.
Obama admin has some explaining to do. From reading the article, it does seem like the Obama admin misled Congress. But, I'm going to read the Senate report myself once I get a moment. If it is overtly partisan BS then there may be less of an issue here. We'll see. At first blush it doesn't sound like a major scandal, but simply a reiteration of the dishonest BS Obama and his staff pulled to get the Iran deal done.
Kory
Member
Trump is reportedly “obsessed” with his power to pardon people. He is mulling over a dozen more pardons that seem to be celebrity driven.
The way Trump has successfully convinced evangelicals to set aside treasured values of decency, honesty, character, and morals in the people they support, admire, and rally around is one of the greatest con jobs ever pulled off in history.
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