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Severe WX December 10 & 11, 2021 Severe Threat

This appears to now be the third biggest thread on the site, probably for good reason, set to surpass the Easter 2020 event page soon for longest event thread and become second only to Significant Tornado Events

I'm mentally done with discussing the ratings debate because the joke that high end surveying has become makes me physically sick
 
Equus said:
This appears to now be the third biggest thread on the site, probably for good reason, set to surpass the Easter 2020 event page soon for longest event thread and become second only to Significant Tornado Events

I'm mentally done with discussing the ratings debate because the joke that high end surveying has become makes me physically sick
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Makes me sick to to see all the double standards that are employed by experts such as Marshall and the Nelson guy (I forget his last name) in the tweet that was posted earlier.
 
vanni9283 said:
Makes me sick to to see all the double standards that are employed by experts such as Marshall and the Nelson guy (I forget his last name) in the tweet that was posted earlier.
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Nelson Tucker. He's a writer over at TornadoTalk.

It is a shame because Tornado Talk has uncovered so many forgotten and lowballed tornadoes - but with double standard crap like this they (well at least Nelson) are effectively sweeping other violent tornado events under the rug.

I decided I was done with that site after they put up the paywall, anyhow.
 
buckeye05 said:
What annoys me is how many, if not most NWS mets tend to be extremely dismissive of vegetation damage, particularly scouring. They say things like, "an EF2 or EF3 can scour the ground, all it takes is debris." Or "Soils have too much variance across various regions of the US, and we don't understand how things like moisture content play a role in scouring." Logic wise, that holds up, but when you're nerds like us who have been looking into countless tornado events for decades, and analyzed a ridiculous amount of damage photos, the correlation between severe ground scouring and high-end events is undeniable. Much like what I do when the topic of debarking comes up, I say "Ok. Then show me an instance of severe ground scouring within an area that sustained classic EF2 to EF3 structural damage." It just doesn't happen. Then the backpedaling to "Well you can't do wind engineering tests on grass, and there's no scouring DI on the scale so..." Yeah it doesn't matter. If one were to collect incidents of significant scouring, and compare it to the type of structural damage that occurred nearby, I absolutely guarantee that one would find an undeniable correlation. The more you press, the more everything just starts to sound like an excuse...
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I studied soil science in undergrad.. Do they bring in soil scientists to analyze the soil/grass damage?

Because if they don’t…..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Shakespeare 2016 said:
Tim Marshall told me some years back it was the trench digging in Philadelphia that caused that tornado to be upgraded to an EF5. So I am not sure what he is getting at.
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But of course the same people who argue that deep ground scouring is no longer an EF5 qualifier will still maintain the EF5 designation of older events based on deep ground scouring. By Timothy P. Marshall’s latest judgment, the NWS should simply go back in time and downgrade the Philadelphia MS tornado, but of course that course of action will not be taken. The fact that we are still seeing such waffling in this day and age perfectly illustrates why will never have an accurate historical tornado database. I simply cannot abide the fact that future generations will refer to official rankings that classify Mayfield KY as an “EF4” and Bowling Green KY, Dresden TN, and Saloma KY as “EF3s.”
 
Casuarina Head said:
The fact that we are still seeing such waffling in this day and age perfectly illustrates why will never have an accurate historical tornado database.
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That these people are so full of themselves not to realise the problems this causes is its own issue. Certainly wouldn't want to be doing any climatological or probabilistic studies.
 
Doing some more digging through the DAT. Has anyone noticed that there have been no EF4 damage points assigned in the Earlington/Barnserly, KY area? Multiple homes were leveled there, and insanely heavy train cars were thrown around. Am I missing something?
 
buckeye05 said:
Doing some more digging through the DAT. Has anyone noticed that there have been no EF4 damage points assigned in the Earlington/Barnserly, KY area? Multiple homes were leveled there, and insanely heavy train cars were thrown around. Am I missing something?
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The leveled homes were given HE EF3. Looks like they had no anchoring.
 
buckeye05 said:
If this is the one I'm thinking of, I think about half of the slab was covered with a pile of debris during the morning after flyover of Mayfield, so I think at least some of this was from debris cleanup, but if that home was reasonably well-anchored, that is still pretty impressive.
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The house was built in 1970 and was a 3-bed 1-bath house, but that's all I have as far as construction goes.
 
buckeye05 said:
If this is the one I'm thinking of, I think about half of the slab was covered with a pile of debris during the morning after flyover of Mayfield, so I think at least some of this was from debris cleanup, but if that home was reasonably well-anchored, that is still pretty impressive.
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The pile of debris on the center of the foundation does look pretty neat, indicating cleanup. Is there anywhere I can view the flyover?
 
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