Significant Tornado Events

[speedbump305]

Tornado Talk has been in communication with Tom Grazulis and his wife Doris, including just as recently as this past Wednesday. He is doing well, but he is extremely busy compiling the book!

In my personal opinion, i view grazulis as a way better resource than Ted Fujita. His ratings are accurate and he gives in depth about his ratings. He’s excellent and that’s very great i’m very excited to see that later.

 

[Equus]

Fujita may have had a major hand in developing the scale, and done some of the most groundbreaking work in the history of mapping and surveying, but yeah some of his techniques and ratings are certainly questionable from a modern standpoint. And given the glaring errors that permeate many ratings and tracks in Storm Data, Grazulis is probably the best source out there.

 

[speedbump305]

Fujita may have had a major hand in developing the scale, and done some of the most groundbreaking work in the history of mapping and surveying, but yeah some of his techniques and ratings are certainly questionable from a modern standpoint. And given the glaring errors that permeate many ratings and tracks in Storm Data, Grazulis is probably the best source out there.

Yeah. we have to respect fujita because of the scale and he was a big role model back then, but the rumors of the “ famous tornadoes deserved an F6 rating “ are just false. but still, fujita was well respected and for his time.

 

[Casuarina Head]

One interesting event that has not been mentioned is the Kissimmee, FL, F3 tornado of 02/23/1998. This tornado is well known as the deadliest on record in the State of Florida. However, few people remember that this tornado was initially assigned an F4 rating by the NWS in Melbourne, FL, prior to being downgraded subsequently and entered into the official database as a high-end F3. Some photographs from the event are rather interesting. Apparently, the tornado destroyed and partly swept away large frame homes, similarly to the Suffolk, VA, EF3 tornado of 04/28/2008. Yet the story does not end there. Per the linked photographs and corresponding narratives at NWS Melbourne:

All that is left of what was a brand-new concrete-block and stucco home, Structure left standing
is front-door entryway and one partial wall with a window. This subdivision was directly across the Florida
Turnpike from the RV Park, where damage photos above were taken.

Technically, this single-story CBS home collapsed, and debris remained on the foundation, but the stucco would have added (considerable?) structural strength. If not for the mentioning of the stucco, I would have agreed 100% with the NWS’s assigning a high-end F3 rating to this DI, but it does raise the question as to how well the structure would have fared had it been built without stucco, all other factors being equal; after all, the interior did contain concrete masonry. This tornado is certainly a borderline case, like Suffolk, but one could make a case for either or both of these tornadoes’ having attained (E)F4 status, however briefly.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I randomly found a scanned copy on Amazon in 2013; since it's long out of print and haven't seen it available since, it would probably be ok to send a PDF copy

Is this the book you have?
Amazon product ASIN B0006RW3DE
I've always wanted a copy of this, but had no clue if it actually existed.

 

[Equus]

Is this the book you have?
Amazon product ASIN B0006RW3DE
I've always wanted a copy of this, but had no clue if it actually existed.

Yep



Just randomly happened upon a copy one day while keeping tabs on anything Grazulis published; apparently from what I gathered it was intended to be distributed with his 2001 book when ordered directly from the site, but either not many did or something happened in distribution

 

[buckeye05]

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Just randomly happened upon a copy one day while keeping tabs on anything Grazulis published; apparently from what I gathered it was intended to be distributed with his 2001 book when ordered directly from the site, but either not many did or something happened in distribution

This is great news, as I’d become convinced that there wasn’t even such a thing. Would you be able to post the entry for the 1960 Prague, OK tornado? There’s some information that I need to confirm, or prove as falsehood if it’s not there.

 

[Equus]

This is great news, as I’d become convinced that there wasn’t even such a thing. Would you be able to post the entry for the 1960 Prague, OK tornado? There’s some information that I need to confirm, or prove as falsehood if it’s not there.

I have a very rudimentary copy saved on my old phone (my book and music library stashed on a big microSD card for safekeeping and travel) so a photo of a phone screen will have to do until I get home and get a quality scan to put up (and internet to upload from!)

I will say, for many or most entries, there's not much additional info than is in sigtor, but that's not universally the case, and there's a lot of interesting photos and a long FAQ that make it worth it

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

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I have a very rudimentary copy saved on my old phone (my book and music library stashed on a big microSD card for safekeeping and travel) so a photo of a phone screen will have to do until I get home and get a quality scan to put up (and internet to upload from!)

I will say, for many or most entries, there's not much additional info than is in sigtor, but that's not universally the case, and there's a lot of interesting photos and a long FAQ that make it worth it

Does the booklet have any more information on Guin, by any chance?
Also, does it say anything about the 1998 "Forgotten F5" that went through rural Tennessee areas? It's hard to find reliable information or damage photographs from this thing.

 

[buckeye05]

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I have a very rudimentary copy saved on my old phone (my book and music library stashed on a big microSD card for safekeeping and travel) so a photo of a phone screen will have to do until I get home and get a quality scan to put up (and internet to upload from!)

I will say, for many or most entries, there's not much additional info than is in sigtor, but that's not universally the case, and there's a lot of interesting photos and a long FAQ that make it worth it

Hey thanks, but i’m actually looking for the F5 booklet entry on this event. I already have the big green book, but there’s allegedly details on the Prague 1960 F5 event that are only mentioned in the booklet. I’m trying to either verify or disprove this.

 

[Equus]

Does the booklet have any more information on Guin, by any chance?
Also, does it say anything about the 1998 "Forgotten F5" that went through rural Tennessee areas? It's hard to find reliable information or damage photographs from this thing.

I'll put up the whole thing in a couple hours

 

[speedbump305]

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I'll put up the whole thing in a couple hours

Equus, that’s extremely excellent that you were able to find that. Dang. for such a reputation guin has, i was expecting a bit more. But that probably shows us the exact debunking of the sweeping away foundation rumor. If grazulis says it didn’t happen, it didn’t happen. That’s our major proof right theee

 

[Equus]

Hey thanks, but i’m actually looking for the F5 booklet entry on this event. I already have the big green book, but there’s allegedly details on the Prague 1960 F5 event that are only mentioned in the booklet. I’m trying to either verify or disprove this.

That's the entry from the booklet; I don't see any other information on that specific tornado in the preface FAQ but could be mistaken

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

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I'll put up the whole thing in a couple hours

Two quotes concerning Guin.

"The funnel passed over a city lot in two seconds, carrying away everything on the lot".
What exactly does that mean? I thought lots were vacant, unless it was full of junk or whatever. What a strange statement.

"In the rural areas NE of Guin, many homes were destroyed, but not leveled."
Again, weird statement. If they were still standing I'd say they were damaged, but not destroyed. If something isn't leveled, I don't think it's reasonable to say it was destroyed; perhaps severely damaged?

Grazulis is very smart, but when you're documenting 10,000+ tornadoes there are bound to be errors every now and then. I'm thinking some typos occurred in the Guin entry. Also, this thing has a such an incredible reputation but why is it so difficult to find damage photographs from it? I wish Grazulis had included some to make his case of this tornado being among the most intense ever to hit Alabama.

 

[speedbump305]

Two quotes concerning Guin.

"The funnel passed over a city lot in two seconds, carrying away everything on the lot".
What exactly does that mean? I thought lots were vacant, unless it was full of junk or whatever. What a strange statement.

"In the rural areas NE of Guin, many homes were destroyed, but not leveled."
Again, weird statement. If they were still standing I'd say they were damaged, but not destroyed. If something isn't leveled, I don't think it's reasonable to say it was destroyed; perhaps severely damaged?

Grazulis is very smart, but when you're documenting 10,000+ tornadoes there are bound to be errors every now and then. I'm thinking some typos occurred in the Guin entry. Also, this thing has a such an incredible reputation but why is it so difficult to find damage photographs from it? I wish Grazulis had included some to make his case of this tornado being among the most intense ever to hit Alabama.

Exactly! guin has a reputation of being one of the strongest in history, but this is kinda suspicious. But i’m sure it’s just typos.

 

[A Guy]

That description of the Prague tornado is shorter than and almost entirely derived from the original Storm Data entry:



I must say I'm not sure why there's a rush here to declare things 'debunked' on the basis of no other evidence either way. Take rumours with the appropriate salt, but sometime unknowns will just have to remain so.

 

[speedbump305]

That description of the Prague tornado is shorter than and almost entirely derived from the original Storm Data entry:

View attachment 6782

I must say I'm not sure why there's a rush here to declare things 'debunked' on the basis of no other evidence either way. Take rumours with the appropriate salt, but sometime unknowns will just have to remain so.

Yeah it’s too early to tell if it’s debunked, i am rushing, however, guins rumors are for sure close to being debunked. Damage photos show normal EF5 type damage so far, but there’s a lot we are missing.

 

[buckeye05]

That's the entry from the booklet; I don't see any other information on that specific tornado in the preface FAQ but could be mistaken

Oh! Ok I assumed the booklet would provide additional details. This is pretty much the same info listen online and in the Big Green Book. This also finally proves Causarina Head’s old allegations about this event and the booklet’s contents as utter nonsense.

That description of the Prague tornado is shorter than and almost entirely derived from the original Storm Data entry:

View attachment 6782

I must say I'm not sure why there's a rush here to declare things 'debunked' on the basis of no other evidence either way. Take rumours with the appropriate salt, but sometime unknowns will just have to remain so.

What happened was, user Causarina Head has been spreading misinformation regarding this event and info within the F5 booklet. He claimed the the booklet states that the Prague F5 carried oil tanks for long distances and removed all vegetation and several inches of topsoil from hillsides. After finally viewing the booklet entry, this confirms my suspicions that this information is NOT in the booklet, and that this is just more unverifiable hogwash perpetuated by the aforementioned user.

 

[buckeye05]

Yeah it’s too early to tell if it’s debunked, i am rushing, however, guins rumors are for sure close to being debunked. Damage photos show normal EF5 type damage so far, but there’s a lot we are missing.

Make no mistake, Guin was extremely violent based on higher quality photos that have recently surfaced. The foundation removal rumors are still unverified, and are almost certainly untrue.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Make no mistake, Guin was extremely violent based on higher quality photos that have recently surfaced. The foundation removal rumors are still unverified, and are almost certainly untrue.

I wish it was possible to find more high-quality aerial or ground photos to get a full picture of the scale of the damage; I'd also like to see more pictures of the damage done by it outside of Guin; in Decatur and Twin, AL and the William B. Bankhead National Forest. There are damage photos of the forest available on the NWS site for 4/3/74 but they're very low quality. I have a feeling someone in Alabama (or maybe Grazulis) is sitting on a massive collection of damage photographs from Guin that we'd all really like to see.