Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[Kory]

No sir, but I do have the utmost respect for the Catholic church, its efforts to spread the gospel and help the poor, and many other things. My wife was Catholic until she was a young teenager, and I also have family on my mother's side whom are Catholic. Always have been an an Evangelical Christian.

I've seen you speak about Catholics a lot, so I made some assumptions. But yeah, I've seen firsthand the work the Church has done (you do a lot of volunteer work with them when you attend Catholic school from kindergarten til 12th grade) and it's phenomenal. People wanna talk about the wealth the Church has, but in reality, for an institution that has 1.2+ billion people, it really is not that much when compared to the charity work they perform. I have family that is assisted in an elderly/disabled "sort-of" independent living and without that, I'm not sure my grandmother would've made it, so I know first hand.

 

[Kory]

Please tell me what the University of Alabama has to do with the abortion law?

 

[gangstonc]

 

[gangstonc]

Please tell me what the University of Alabama has to do with the abortion law?

I really don’t understand Culberhouse’s logic here.

 

[Kory]

I believe you called this...months ago. Although, the Robert Kraft case is falling apart very, very quickly.

 

[Kory]

I really don’t understand Culberhouse’s logic here.

Seriously, as someone who is an alum and quite involved with UA on a daily basis, I'm trying to connect what UA has done to "discriminate" or be anyway associated with said bill.

“I cannot stand by silently and allow my name to be associated with a state educational system that teaches students law that clearly conflicts with the United States Constitution and Federal law, and which promotes blatant discrimination,” said Mr. Culverhouse Jr.

 

[Arcadia]

I both agree and disagree with you and ghost here. In short, I'm an Evangelical, and I know that the majority of Evangelicals have made excuses for Trump and twisted themselves into pretzels to pardon his immorality, narcissism, and psychopathy. Sure, it's not ALL evangelicals, but I grew up in the Assemblies of God. These are my people. I clearly remember their reaction to Clinton's immorality and the disdain they had for his disgraceful behavior. They simply have not applied the same standards to Trump.

That's the overall point -- our country has long been wicked and full of immorality, even in the Presidency but most Evangelicals were clear to voice their disdain and condemnation of such behavior and demand better. The same has not held true for Trump. I absolutely believe it is a majority. Whether or not a majority of Evangelicals supported Trump in the election, an overwhelming majority of Evangelicals currently approve of Trump as President. It's true that Clinton's approval rating spiked after impeachment, but he had historically high approval ratings as a base, his approval ratings returned to their norm fairly quickly, and it wasn't Evangelical voters giving him the bump. That said, I do know plenty of Evangelicals that have said they were OK with Clinton in hindsight because of the economy.

So I do agree the slide towards tolerating immorality by Christians has been ongoing for a very long time. But Trump kicked that process into an overdrive and also changed the way such conduct is even looked at. It's has gone from "I don't agree with President X's immoral behaviors/scandals, but I do like the results to making EXCUSES for Trump's immorality, minimizing it, and in some cases even embracing it. There's a stark difference between tolerating someone's flaws because of the results they bring and reveling in someone's immoral behavior and justifying or excusing it. Plus, there's still the whole problem of those that still pretend that Trump is a Christian who cares about Christianity. He takes Christianity only as seriously as the vies) votes it gets him. Like most things, Trump is supportive of whatever happens to benefit him -- not because of any deeply held principals.

On the other side of the coin, I also know plenty of Christians who are Democrats, full-fledged, and support abortion, full stop. Christians who go along with every Democrat agenda on the table, supported Bill Clinton with no regard to the women he abused, and thinks his wife walks on water, that Trump stole the election, and Republicans hate women. There are bad Christians ready to support bad people for all sorts of bad reasons. Do you know how many Catholics call themselves Democrats, a party who supports abortion in all stages? These people, mind you, are what we call cafeteria Catholics. They pick from what the Catholic Church teaches they want to believe and keep that on their plate and skip over the rest, like it's a salad bar. But the number of people who identify as Democrat/Catholic is mind-boggling. Nancy Pelosi calls herself a Catholic, a firm supporter of abortion. And you know her policies on other things. There are many just like her. So, while Evangelicals are getting behind Trump and making excuses for his behavior, there are other Christians who do the exact same only on the opposite side. And it's been going on for a long, long time. Maybe it's all coming to a head. But I just find it a little disingenuous that it all gets heaped on Trump's shoulders as if he's the root cause. He isn't. However, I will say that my anger from Trump winning the Republican nomination, and maybe you'll remember this, I said that he will destroy any moral high ground Republicans ever had. I guess by default he's destroying Evangelical morality too. I tried to tell anyone who would listen not to burn the house down because you didn't like the wallpaper. But anger won out. There are consequences to elections. But isn't it funny how no one questions the morality of the Christians who support the Democrat side of this fence? Where is the outrage? I've been outraged for years. I strain to listen but all I hear is silence. No, these Christians get a pass. The ones who support Trump are the ones dragging everything down. And I'm over here just rolling my eyes. It's all excrement.

 

[gangstonc]

I believe you called this...months ago. Although, the Robert Kraft case is falling apart very, very quickly.

I did - based on pure luck and the knowledge that if something nasty is going on trump will
Be involved.

The only reason the Kraft case isn’t going anywhere is because the video of him committing the crime was deemed inadmissible.

 

[ghost]

I would venture to guess this wasn’t a topic then because ghost couldn’t posture about morals and righteously indignify a whole demographic that just happens to largely support Trump. Now, he is just trying to pat himself on the back in an attempt to look morally superior.

I can never be morally superior as long as you are active in the thread Kory

 

[Evan]

I've seen you speak about Catholics a lot, so I made some assumptions. But yeah, I've seen firsthand the work the Church has done (you do a lot of volunteer work with them when you attend Catholic school from kindergarten til 12th grade) and it's phenomenal. People wanna talk about the wealth the Church has, but in reality, for an institution that has 1.2+ billion people, it really is not that much when compared to the charity work they perform. I have family that is assisted in an elderly/disabled "sort-of" independent living and without that, I'm not sure my grandmother would've made it, so I know first hand.

The Catholic church does amazing work. I just attended a wedding (wife's brother) at a Catholic church in Bogotá last month. Construction on the church started in the 1600s and finished in 1703. It was pretty amazing be there. I'll have to post some pictures in a few days.

I know a lot of Protestants are ignorant/fearful of Catholics, but WBB from this forum has been a really good friend of mine and taught me a tremendous amount about the Catholic church. I'm addition, my wife and her family have also added to this as have Mike and his wife Arcadia on this forum. I consider Catholics to be just normal Christians and respect the heck out of them. I also used to do a LOT of work in Louisiana (ironically during Mardi Gras) and obviously nearly all of my franchisees were Catholic -- comes with the territory. I've never understood the anti-Catholic nature of some Protestants though I profess I am still quite ignorant overall about Catholic tradition.

Glad your grandmother was helped by the church and you also served through the church. That's very important stuff and is sometimes minimized more than it should be in modern day Evangelical Protestantism.

Oh, and I'll add that I break with Protestants on the consumption of alcoholic beverages. I've never understood that hangup for Protestants even though my parents never drank. Even as a child the concept of banning all alcohol versus drunkenness being sinful was irrational to me.

 

[Evan]

I can never be morally superior as long as you are active in the thread Kory

Cmon, guys. Same team whether we all sometimes feel like it or not. Both of you are good guys. Kory knows Trump is a scumbag, he's just a little less receptive to Democrats than you or I.

 

[Evan]

On the other side of the coin, I also know plenty of Christians who are Democrats, full-fledged, and support abortion, full stop. Christians who go along with every Democrat agenda on the table, supported Bill Clinton with no regard to the women he abused, and thinks his wife walks on water, that Trump stole the election, and Republicans hate women. There are bad Christians ready to support bad people for all sorts of bad reasons. Do you know how many Catholics call themselves Democrats, a party who supports abortion in all stages? These people, mind you, are what we call cafeteria Catholics. They pick from what the Catholic Church teaches they want to believe and keep that on their plate and skip over the rest, like it's a salad bar. But the number of people who identify as Democrat/Catholic is mind-boggling. Nancy Pelosi calls herself a Catholic, a firm supporter of abortion. And you know her policies on other things. There are many just like her. So, while Evangelicals are getting behind Trump and making excuses for his behavior, there are other Christians who do the exact same only on the opposite side. And it's been going on for a long, long time. Maybe it's all coming to a head. But I just find it a little disingenuous that it all gets heaped on Trump's shoulders as if he's the root cause. He isn't. However, I will say that my anger from Trump winning the Republican nomination, and maybe you'll remember this, I said that he will destroy any moral high ground Republicans ever had. I guess by default he's destroying Evangelical morality too. I tried to tell anyone who would listen not to burn the house down because you didn't like the wallpaper. But anger won out. There are consequences to elections. But isn't it funny how no one questions the morality of the Christians who support the Democrat side of this fence? Where is the outrage? I've been outraged for years. I strain to listen but all I hear is silence. No, these Christians get a pass. The ones who support Trump are the ones dragging everything down. And I'm over here just rolling my eyes. It's all excrement.

Can't find anywhere I disagree in what you wrote in this post. We're in 100% agreement. I'll say this...I hold my Evangelical brethren to a certain standard -- as many Catholics do to their brethren -- and I'm beyond pissed at how morally compromised most Evangelicals have become over the past 10-15 years, and Trump is the damn cherry on top of the sundae.

Let me put it this way, a lot of these Trump supporting Evangelicals are just outright hypocrites. That's why ghost's post resonated with me. I know these people. I grew up with them. I am one of them. I hear and see what goes on in this community every day. Honest to God, I've cut back on going to church significantly since 2015/2016. The Lord knows I'm not perfect -- very far from it -- but I'm not a damn hypocrite about it. And, so, I'm furious with my hypocritical brethren who bash Mexicans and love Trump -- even though I'm just as much of a sinner as they are. At least I'll freaking admit it. Instead of hiding behind a fig leaf.

Sorry, Arcadia. I get passionate about this. We Protestants have a really big problem with hypocrisy compared to Catholics. Catholics don't pretend to be perfect or the 2nd coming of Christ himself while voting for Trump and hating people because they're brown. I'll leave it there for now because I'm close to getting going and if I do I might end up Catholic before the night ends. The Protestants will be done with me if I start in on their SCANT contributions to charity compared to Catholics and their utter hypocrisy on Trump.

 

[Arcadia]

I know you didn't intend for your post to be funny but you saying you may become Catholic before the night ends made me laugh. Just a little. I do get your frustration though. I hear you.

 

[Evan]

I know you didn't intend for your post to be funny but you saying you may become Catholic before the night ends made me laugh. Just a little. I do get your frustration though. I hear you.

All is well. I absolutely understand what you mean.

 

[gangstonc]

This morning Trump said russia helped him get elected.

 

[Matt]

 

[Matt]

This sums up the dems pretty well.

 

[Matt]

Kerri Kupec, spokeswoman for the DOJ and Peter Carr, spokesman for the Special Counsels office reled the following joint statement;


The Attorney General has previously stated that the Special Counsel repeatedly affirmed that he was not saying that, but for the OLC opinion, he would have found the President obstructed justice. The Special Counsel's report and his statement today made clear that the office concluded it would not reach a determination - one way or the other - about whether the President committed a crime. There is no conflict between these statements.

Mueller is a dirty rotten rat!

 

[gangstonc]

Kerri Kupec, spokeswoman for the DOJ and Peter Carr, spokesman for the Special Counsels office reled the following joint statement;


The Attorney General has previously stated that the Special Counsel repeatedly affirmed that he was not saying that, but for the OLC opinion, he would have found the President obstructed justice. The Special Counsel's report and his statement today made clear that the office concluded it would not reach a determination - one way or the other - about whether the President committed a crime. There is no conflict between these statements.

Mueller is a dirty rotten rat!

You need to analyze the words more closely. Nothing in there says anything that would imply Mueller did anything crooked.

Mueller said he couldn’t even consider charging the president because of the OLC memo. He was supposed to make a report and Congress is supposed to decide if trump committed a crime. Mueller specifically said charging Trump was "not an option we could consider."

 

[Matt]

You need to analyze the words more closely. Nothing in there says anything that would imply Mueller did anything crooked.

Mueller said he couldn’t even consider charging the president because of the OLC memo. He was supposed to make a report and Congress is supposed to decide if trump committed a crime. Mueller specifically said charging Trump was "not an option we could consider."

He's a rat and a dirty cop.