• Welcome to TalkWeather!
    We see you lurking around TalkWeather! Take the extra step and join us today to view attachments, see less ads and maybe even join the discussion.
    CLICK TO JOIN TALKWEATHER

Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

I don’t want to derail (hah!) the conversation too much, but while on the topic of contextual damage, I don’t think I’ve found a better picture illustrating
why grass scouring is a much better violent tornado indicator than farm field “scouring”.
IMG_0125.png
 
buckeye05 said:
I don’t want to derail (hah!) the conversation too much, but while on the topic of contextual damage, I don’t think I’ve found a better picture illustrating
why grass scouring is a much better violent tornado indicator than farm field “scouring”.
View attachment 46953
Click to expand...
Especially lawn grass. Which is highly resilient to tornadic winds.
 
Brice W said:
Just to add to the obvious that we know. Why not add Vilonia in there too.
Click to expand...

AJS said:
Oh absolutely. Probably the most egregious candidate of them all.
Click to expand...

Even house construction aside: 15 tons, 3/4 of a mile. I’m not a mathematician by any stretch of the imagination, but that seems like another candidate for calculation-based EF5.
IMG_0128.jpeg
 
SilentShadow87 said:
To be totally honest...I wasn't sure I'd ever see the day. The drought started a few months before I got into watching severe weather, and I'd started to have a feeling that the EF5 rating was just not going to be used anymore.


Let's be real, there are at least half a dozen EF4s over the last 12 years which should be upgraded, and the number of EF3s that should to be bumped up to EF4 is probably in the double digits.
Click to expand...
There are a number of tornadoes from this year that could be upgraded to at least an EF4.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AJS
Lake Martin EF4 said:
And, as a nice addendum: my entire weather career so far has been spent with the dream of one day tracking an EF5 in situ. Today, I learned that my dream has finally come true.
Click to expand...

Here's how long it's been: When Moore happened I was still a student at Milwaukee Area Technical College and was had class that afternoon (I'd actually finished the core courses in my degree program a year prior, but hung around taking a few more classes mainly so I could continue working part-time as a student employee at the Milwaukee PBS TV station, which is located on campus).

I knew there was a risk of severe storms and tornadoes in central Oklahoma that day, so I surreptitiously pulled up one of the Oklahoma City TV stations' websites on the classroom computer I was using, and opened up the live stream to see the whirling black wedge hurling debris everywhere, and knew I was witnessing history just like the day two springs prior (toward the end of my first year in that same degree program) when I got home from class and pulled up GR Level 3 just in time to see the debris ball over Tuscaloosa.
 
Last edited:
Ozonelayer said:
Tornadoes that could potentially be upgraded due to this brand new precedent:

Matador, TX 2023 (New: EF-5)

Little Rock, AR 2023 (New: EF-4)

Andover, KS 2022 (New: EF-4)

Mayfield, KY 2021 (New: EF-5)

Tri State AR-MO-TN 2021 (New: EF-5)

Bassfield-Soso MS 2020 (New: EF-5)

Chapman, KS 2019 (New: EF-5)

Vlionia, AR 2014 (New: EF-5)

Tuscaloosa, AL 2011 (New: EF-5)

New Wren, MS 2011 (New: EF-5)

The list goes on, the surface is barely touched of upgradable tornadoes.
Click to expand...
Tornadoes to note , note the new rules state (a large heavy compact (full) object being thrown at 50+ meters)

Mayfeild 2021: threw a train car up a hill by 40 meters and it was much much more heavier then what most train cars are at.

Vilonia 2014: threw some heavy large tankers at almost a mile away.

tuscaloosa 2011: did the same thrown train car distance as Enderlin tornado , however unsure if its full , if it was full and not empty then there is 0 reason to not rate it under EF5 anymore.

new wren 2011: threw a truck 1.7 miles away.

Stanton 2014: threw cars a mile away , im hearing it might of thrown heavy objects 6+ miles away.

Cisco 2015: threw a car and other large objects over a mile away.

and of course there are the already rated EF5 tornadoes , like greensburg thrown oil tanks at over 7+ miles away! and moore throwing some more then a mile away.

these seems to be the main obvious ones they should relook at.
 
joshoctober16 said:
Tornadoes to note , note the new rules state (a large heavy compact (full) object being thrown at 50+ meters)

Mayfeild 2021: threw a train car up a hill by 40 meters and it was much much more heavier then what most train cars are at.

Vilonia 2014: threw some heavy large tankers at almost a mile away.

tuscaloosa 2011: did the same thrown train car distance as Enderlin tornado , however unsure if its full , if it was full and not empty then there is 0 reason to not rate it under EF5 anymore.

new wren 2011: threw a truck 1.7 miles away.

Stanton 2014: threw cars a mile away , im hearing it might of thrown heavy objects 6+ miles away.

Cisco 2015: threw a car and other large objects over a mile away.

and of course there are the already rated EF5 tornadoes , like greensburg thrown oil tanks at over 7+ miles away! and moore throwing some more then a mile away.

these seems to be the main obvious ones they should relook at.
Click to expand...
How much did the Mayfield Train weigh? I'm going to calculate it but I need the weight.
 
joshoctober16 said:
Tornadoes to note , note the new rules state (a large heavy compact (full) object being thrown at 50+ meters)

Mayfeild 2021: threw a train car up a hill by 40 meters and it was much much more heavier then what most train cars are at.

Vilonia 2014: threw some heavy large tankers at almost a mile away.

tuscaloosa 2011: did the same thrown train car distance as Enderlin tornado , however unsure if its full , if it was full and not empty then there is 0 reason to not rate it under EF5 anymore.

new wren 2011: threw a truck 1.7 miles away.

Stanton 2014: threw cars a mile away , im hearing it might of thrown heavy objects 6+ miles away.

Cisco 2015: threw a car and other large objects over a mile away.

and of course there are the already rated EF5 tornadoes , like greensburg thrown oil tanks at over 7+ miles away! and moore throwing some more then a mile away.

these seems to be the main obvious ones they should relook at.
Click to expand...
The study includes vehicles in the list of 50 meter EF5 indicators. It's not just restricted to abnormally heavy objects. The tanker from Enderlin was four times heaver and thrown two times further than any item they studied. They found even hay bails require 200 mph+ winds to throw 50 meters and those aren't ridiculously heavy by any stretch. It's honestly crazy. The study blows tornado ratings WIDE open. I really want to see their work expanded on with all sorts of other objects. I can't imagine the winds required to throw a 15 ton barrel 3/4ths of a mile, but the tools are there now to figure it out (for people who can comprehend the math lol).

Seriously, even the largest hay bails are way less than 2000 pounds.

1759797391523.png
 
also i think there are 1 or 2 tornadoes that they should rate as EF5 , with one being 100%

reason why the enderlin ef5 rating used the logic from one of the papers posted as a link in here https://uwo.ca/ntp/blog/2025/csslntp_research_assists_with_rating_historic_ef5_tornado_in_us.html
you will find 1759797319338.png

here is that paper

and here is the results of 2 of the tornadoes
1759797371873.png

the alonsa EF4 tornado has a 100% chance of having 201+ mph winds using the same logic.

therefor alonsa is the first of the (potentially be upgraded due to this brand new precedent) that should be upgraded.


thus alonsa and enderlin should be rated the same rating , if enderlin is a EF5 so is alonsa
if alonsa is just a EF4 and not a EF5 then enderlin is just a EF4 and not a EF5.
 
Grand Poo Bah said:
The study includes vehicles in the list of 50 meter EF5 indicators. It's not just restricted to abnormally heavy objects. The tanker from Enderlin was four times heaver and thrown two times further than any item they studied. They found even hay bails require 200 mph+ winds to throw 50 meters and those aren't ridiculously heavy by any stretch. It's honestly crazy. The study blows tornado ratings WIDE open. I really want to see their work expanded on with all sorts of other objects. I can't imagine the winds required to throw a 15 ton barrel 3/4ths of a mile, but the tools are there now to figure it out (for people who can comprehend the math lol).

Seriously, even the largest hay bails are way less than 2000 pounds.

View attachment 46959
Click to expand...
This may blow the lid off of the current set of wind speed estimates. I think we’re all starting to realize that Fujita had it right the first time around, and I hope the experts can put their pride aside and reach the same conclusion.
 
This thread for most of last month:
53daa23a726fe6fc52934216b151d5ba.gif


This thread after Enderlin's upgrade:
SUEH7O.gif
 
buckeye05 said:
This may blow the lid off of the current set of wind speed estimates. I think we’re all starting to realize that Fujita had it right the first time around, and I hope the experts can put their pride aside and reach the same conclusion.
Click to expand...
I have been saying that for years. No most of us are not engineers but violent high-end contextual damage tends to be very obvious to people who know about rating damage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top