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Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

Here's some images of Mayfield train cars @slenker. It moved two cars a decent distance.

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A clear difference between Mayfield and Enderlin is the damage the tank in Enderlin sustained. I think it bounced end over end 3 times on its way to its final resting place.

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Here's high quality drone footage of the scene:



If the train isn't conclusive enough to prove EF5 winds, the truck is. (Edit: the truck is actually from the Jamestown EF2) The tornado ripped it apart limb from limb into little tiny bits and took the grass with it. Seriously incredible.

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Grand Poo Bah said:
If the train isn't conclusive enough to prove EF5 winds, the truck is. The tornado ripped it apart limb from limb into little tiny bits and took the grass with it. Seriously incredible.
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These photos of the truck, I believe, are actually from the EF2 near Jamestown. The field had already been plowed, but the vehicle damage still points to a violent tornado.
 
Lake Martin EF4 said:
These photos of the truck, I believe, are actually from the EF2 near Jamestown. The field had already been plowed, but the vehicle damage still points to a violent tornado.
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Darn it you're right! Great catch. Must have got them mixed up when I was downloading photos. I don't think it's farm field though based on the lack of rows, clumps of grass, and almost total scouring of the adjacent ditch.

 
TH2002 said:
I'm gonna run through these one by one:

Potosi: I'm honestly ok with top-end EF3, but low-end EF4 would have been just as appropriate. Either or, really.
Greenville: EF4, no way. 140-145MPH EF3 looks appropriate based on what I've seen. But in any case, EF2 is too low.
Selmer: I think high-end EF3 was the correct rating. The structures weren't well built and the contextual damage seemed consistent with a low-end EF4 at best.
Bakersfield: I would have been OK with high-end EF3 (the 145mph wind speed estimate was too low for sure) but no doubt it was violent based on contextuals.
Des Arc: I looked at all the photos of that one house on the DAT and pretty much all of the anchor bolts were missing nuts. Normally I would assume they got stripped off by the tornado, but the NWS uploaded a photo of sill plating still attached w/ no nut on the anchor bolt so I genuinely think a construction error happened here (much like the Deer Drive home from early in the Vilonia tornado's path). EF3 seems appropriate to me.
St. Louis: the homes that were leveled were old and frail. Masonry does not automatically equal better construction. As a matter of fact, the very photos you posted show trees and vegetation hardly disturbed right next to a leveled home, pretty much a dead giveaway that violent winds were not required to do that damage. EF3 is fine.
Grinnell and Plevna: gonna get these two out of the way at the same time. Regardless of construction quality, I agree that the biggest flaw with those surveys are two blatantly violent tornadoes rated below the violent threshold. Low-end EF3 for Grinnell especially doesn't sit well with me.
Morganfield: not overly familiar with it, but a quick look at the survey page didn't reveal anything that 100% screamed violent, at least to me.
Enderlin: fully expected this one to get slapped with a high-end EF3 rating. I'm honestly ok with that rating being applied to the homes it destroyed, but I do think a more detailed analysis needs to be done on the train car that was thrown.

For Lake City, Diaz, Larkin, Tylertown, Marion and London I obviously agree with their EF4 ratings, so no need to comment there.
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Agreed. Still interested in the Linton and Bloomington, Indiana tornadoes. Probably not violent but still interested.
 
I would argue that the Diaz, AR EF-4 was probably the strongest of the year so far, mainly because of this:

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This is a before-and-after comparison of a recreational plane that was hit by the tornado. The plane was crumpled and compressed into a ball of contorted metal, and is essentially unrecognizable. This is probably some of the worst vehicle damage I've seen this year.
 
Ozonelayer said:
I would argue that the Diaz, AR EF-4 was probably the strongest of the year so far, mainly because of this:

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This is a before-and-after comparison of a recreational plane that was hit by the tornado. The plane was crumpled and compressed into a ball of contorted metal, and is essentially unrecognizable. This is probably some of the worst vehicle damage I've seen this year.
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Diaz, AR is definitely the strongest tornado this year, but it's easily because of the home damage IMO - it was a borderline EF5 home outside of some small valid nitpicks to the home in question. I'm honestly not overly impressed with the plane damage, planes are literally built to go airborne - any amount of lift this thing feels is going to send it. I imagine even tornadoes in the EF2 range would be capable of badly damaging or even destroying planes like this, it's not a very big vehicle all things considered. I'm not saying an EF2 is capable of the damage here because that's clearly erroneous, as this was pretty complete obliteration, but planes are definitely more prone to tornadic damage than other types of vehicles.
 
slenker said:
Diaz, AR is definitely the strongest tornado this year, but it's easily because of the home damage IMO - it was a borderline EF5 home outside of some small valid nitpicks to the home in question. I'm honestly not overly impressed with the plane damage, planes are literally built to go airborne - any amount of lift this thing feels is going to send it. I imagine even tornadoes in the EF2 range would be capable of badly damaging or even destroying planes like this, it's not a very big vehicle all things considered. I'm not saying an EF2 is capable of the damage here because that's clearly erroneous, as this was pretty complete obliteration, but planes are definitely more prone to tornadic damage than other types of vehicles.
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A lot of the tornadoes during the March 14/15 outbreak were truly monsters. I 100% believe the Bakersfield tornado was stronger than the EF3 rating it was given.
 
AJS said:
A lot of the tornadoes during the March 14/15 outbreak were truly monsters. I 100% believe the Bakersfield tornado was stronger than the EF3 rating it was given.
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Yeah, the tornadoes that night were likely stronger than the ratings they were given, but don't "deserve" higher ratings outside of Bakersfield and maybe one other that I can't remember. The parameter space those tornadoes had to work with that night gives me high confidence that at least one of them reached EF5 intensity at some point or another, and Diaz was likely one of those tornadoes. IIRC, the supercells had a wide expanse of 400+ SRH with strongly sickle-shaped hodos and instability exceeding 2000 J/kg over a very wide area, with STP values exceeding 10 in some spots. But, again, it didn't inflict damage reminiscent of the rating, so HE EF4 is the right call there. Bakersfield is quite frustrating though, as there was no good reason to rate that storm low end EF3. That tornado was an absolute monster.
 
slenker said:
Yeah, the tornadoes that night were likely stronger than the ratings they were given, but don't "deserve" higher ratings outside of Bakersfield and maybe one other that I can't remember. The parameter space those tornadoes had to work with that night gives me high confidence that at least one of them reached EF5 intensity at some point or another, and Diaz was likely one of those tornadoes. IIRC, the supercells had a wide expanse of 400+ SRH with strongly sickle-shaped hodos and instability exceeding 2000 J/kg over a very wide area, with STP values exceeding 10 in some spots. But, again, it didn't inflict damage reminiscent of the rating, so HE EF4 is the right call there. Bakersfield is quite frustrating though, as there was no good reason to rate that storm low end EF3. That tornado was an absolute monster.
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I’m confident in saying that the Tylertown, MS EF4 was likely stronger at some point. I remember seeing an aerial of incredible tree damage in a forested area that you typically only see in higher end tornadoes. I’ll need to look through that thread and try and find it.
 
slenker said:
Yeah, the tornadoes that night were likely stronger than the ratings they were given, but don't "deserve" higher ratings outside of Bakersfield and maybe one other that I can't remember. The parameter space those tornadoes had to work with that night gives me high confidence that at least one of them reached EF5 intensity at some point or another, and Diaz was likely one of those tornadoes. IIRC, the supercells had a wide expanse of 400+ SRH with strongly sickle-shaped hodos and instability exceeding 2000 J/kg over a very wide area, with STP values exceeding 10 in some spots. But, again, it didn't inflict damage reminiscent of the rating, so HE EF4 is the right call there. Bakersfield is quite frustrating though, as there was no good reason to rate that storm low end EF3. That tornado was an absolute monster.
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would it shock you to know Broyles' TOI spat out a higher outbreak potential for 3/14 over 3/15?
 
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