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Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

Going to be interesting seeing the ratings for some of these tornadoes in the past outbreak. Definitely have some violent contextuals with some of these Arkansas and Missouri tornadoes from the 14th. I’d suspect some of these tornadoes around the Bassfield area were violent as well.
 
I do believe there was at least 3 violent tornadoes between both days. Diaz, AR is the slam dunk EF4+, but I want to see more imagery of damage to be absolutely certain of there being more high-end tornadoes. I think a lot of these storms were capable of inflicting some truly high-end damage, especially the ones very early on Saturday morning and some of the ones earlier on the high risk portion of the outbreak. Bakersfield, the three Bassfield tornadoes, and Tylertown are other candidates, but only based on the impressive radar readings. I also recall one of the tornado videos I saw from Friday night displaying some really impressive vertical motion within a large stovepipe tornado, and I am interested to know which one that was.
 
slenker said:
I do believe there was at least 3 violent tornadoes between both days. Diaz, AR is the slam dunk EF4+, but I want to see more imagery of damage to be absolutely certain of there being more high-end tornadoes. I think a lot of these storms were capable of inflicting some truly high-end damage, especially the ones very early on Saturday morning and some of the ones earlier on the high risk portion of the outbreak. Bakersfield, the three Bassfield tornadoes, and Tylertown are other candidates, but only based on the impressive radar readings. I also recall one of the tornado videos I saw from Friday night displaying some really impressive vertical motion within a large stovepipe tornado, and I am interested to know which one that was.
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The Mississippi tornadoes yesterday were almost without question capable of producing violent damage and honestly probably did. Most of them had pronounced debris balls.
 
Yeah I definitely expect an EF4 rating for the Diaz tornado. That flattened and partially swept brick home had properly placed and properly installed anchor bolts that were sheared off the foundation with plenty of violent contextual damage to support it.
 
just want to post this little part from a other thread...

TH2002 said:
[PDF] Damage Survey of the June 12, 1899 New Richmond, Wisconsin Tornado

Engineers from the NIST and ASCE went back in time and conducted a damage survey of tornado damage in New Richmond, Wisconsin after the tornado of 1899. While officially rated F5, the highest damage found corresponded to a rating of high-end EF3 on the Enhanced Fujita Scale, with winds of approximately 165 MPH. The structures in the area were poorly built, with no anchor bolts present. The brick hotel that was leveled to its first floor, while it was a candidate for a low-end EF4 rating, engineers found it had been pummeled by debris from other structures, exacerbating the level of destruction. The hardwood trees could have been debarked by wind speeds as low as the EF2 range.

Meteorologist Ted Fujita dissented, but we decided he didn't know what the hell he was talking about.
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and just as expected... if they were to try to re rate past tornadoes 90% + of all tornadoes would be downgraded to a very ridiculous level...

also here we go again with the whole (hit by debris) issue.....
 

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tornado examiner said:
I doubt there’s much debate need for the Diaz tornado it’s a very fair rating. The house was not fully swept away and the contextual weren’t super extreme.
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It’s preliminary. A 190 MPH EF4 that quickly means that it may genuinely get the EF5 label - it is absolutely a serious candidate for such a thing. I personally didn’t think it was anything above a ~180 MPH EF4 when I first saw the images, but after seeing some of the imagery in the tweets posted by Andy (concrete ripped up and out of the ground, insane vortex motion), it’s absolutely on the table. Whatever rating they arrive at, I’m interested to see what happens.
 
slenker said:
It’s preliminary. A 190 MPH EF4 that quickly means that it may genuinely get the EF5 label - it is absolutely a serious candidate for such a thing. I personally didn’t think it was anything above a ~180 MPH EF4 when I first saw the images, but after seeing some of the imagery in the tweets posted by Andy (concrete ripped up and out of the ground, insane vortex motion), it’s absolutely on the table. Whatever rating they arrive at, I’m interested to see what happens.
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Well….sheared and bent bolts are a thing from it and it also looks like part of the home’s foundation was bent outwards. Like a concrete foundation wall got damaged.

It is a slight possibility.
 
Honestly? I can see the Oil Trough-Diaz-Tuckerman tornado getting an EF5 rating. Basing this off the several indicators we likely haven’t seen yet, the degree of which the high end rating was applied almost as quick as we’ve seen it, and the hesitation from the surveyors to say that it’s final. Call me wrong, crazy, bold, whatever. It’s just a sinking feeling.
 
Tanner said:
Honestly? I can see the Oil Trough-Diaz-Tuckerman tornado getting an EF5 rating. Basing this off the several indicators we likely haven’t seen yet, the degree of which the high end rating was applied almost as quick as we’ve seen it, and the hesitation from the surveyors to say that it’s final. Call me wrong, crazy, bold, whatever. It’s just a sinking feeling.
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I 100% agree. It’s not unrealistic for them to go EF5 here, not one bit
 
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joshoctober16 said:
just want to post this little part from a other thread...


and just as expected... if they were to try to re rate past tornadoes 90% + of all tornadoes would be downgraded to a very ridiculous level...

also here we go again with the whole (hit by debris) issue.....
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I'm pretty sure this was just a old fashioned high-quality shitpost by @TH2002 lol. Notice the usage of a time machine, and the presence of Ted Fujita himself.
 
@buckeye05 Based on our common ground (working strictly within the bounds EF scale), I believe the determining factor for whether this house receives the lower bound or upper bound rating should be based on whether it was slid, flipped, or thrown off its foundation. If it was slid or flipped, I believe the lower bound is justified. If it was thrown the upper bound should be assigned.

It looks like the house had a proper continuous load path to its anchoring in the foundation, so the forces required to actually rip it loose and loft it would still be immense. This position is partially supported by the original Fujita scale's description of F5 tornadoes "tossing strong frame homes off their foundation." I think the "tossing" was the important distinction, especially considering homes were rarely (if ever?) built with anchor bolts back then.


1742178487759.png
 
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joshoctober16 said:
just want to post this little part from a other thread...


and just as expected... if they were to try to re rate past tornadoes 90% + of all tornadoes would be downgraded to a very ridiculous level...

also here we go again with the whole (hit by debris) issue.....
Click to expand...
Grand Poo Bah said:
I'm pretty sure this was just a old fashioned high-quality shitpost by @TH2002 lol. Notice the usage of a time machine, and the presence of Ted Fujita himself.
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Brice W said:
You cannot be serious. Really?
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Cross-posting from the severe thread, but yep - my New Richmond survey post was 100% satire. Isn't it sometimes hard to tell the difference between jokes and what some people actually believe?
 
TH2002 said:
Cross-posting from the severe thread, but yep - my New Richmond survey post was 100% satire. Isn't it sometimes hard to tell the difference between jokes and what some people actually believe?
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As soon as we start getting EF5s again I'll be in here campaigning to change Piedmont and Smithville's ratings to EF6
 
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Oh that’s nws Springfield assessing slabbed homes incorrectly.
Using the “most walls collapsed except small interior rooms” on a bolted slabbed home to avoid rating higher than 140mph.
Yes this is Bakersfield.
It’s another poorly surveyed tornado to debate over unless this changes.
 

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