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Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread
- Thread starter Bama Ravens
- Start date
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- Moderator
- #4,942
A lot going on in the Alabama legislature last week and this week. A couple of big bills came out of committee this week. One being a senate by that would allow a paper only lottery. The other being a medical marijuana bill that cleared a senate committee today. Both of these bills will now be able to go before the full senate for a vote. Last week a senate committee cleared a bill that would decriminalize small amounts of marijuana and another House committee gave a favorable report on a Fantasy Sports bill. The second half of the legislative session looks busy over the coming month or so.
- Moderator
- #4,943
Tennessee was trying to push an online only sports betting bill through at the last minute. Not sure how that one came out though.
gangstonc
Member
gangstonc
Member
The worst president of all time. He is tuning the system of checks and balances
gangstonc
Member
Public sentiment is moving towards impeachment.
Last edited by a moderator:
He needed to be fired for not applying justice equally! Do you think we should have a two tiered justice system ?
Kory
Member
A bit of hyperbole. Trump may be bad, but he’ll never be FDR bad.
- Admin
- #4,952
Ok first off, If you want a good look at what the polls really say about Trump Go here:
RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html
If your argument comes from someone who clearly is opinionated one way or the other, you are going to get their bias involved in it.
Some interesting things said recently:
There's nearly a Nixon '74 level of public support for impeaching Trump https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/22/politics/impeach-trump-nixon-support-bill-clinton-poll/index.html
I don't believe this for one second. 74 level impeachment interest! Yeah I doubt that seriously.
Opinion | Impeachment and Public Opinion https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/opinion/impeachment.html
Um of course his base is not going to budge. Why? Well because in their opinion no proof has been issued. Democrat Opinion vs. Republican Opinion equals 0 proof only opinion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...es-toward-impeachment/?utm_term=.862bd24bfbd2
I very much dislike stories that utilize only one poll to justify their story.
Steyer: We can't wait for Republicans. Pelosi should launch Trump impeachment process now. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/03/13/pelosi-democrats-impeach-trump-protect-laws-constitution-tom-steyer-column/3139886002/
IF this isn't politically bias I do not know what is.
Impeachment is not a high priority for voters, recent polls show https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2019/01/03/impeachment-is-not-a-high-priority-for-voters-recent-polls-show/
See and then the opposite side of the scale. So which story is right?
Why Democrats should resist impeachment https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chapman/ct-perspec-chapman-impeachment-trump-pelosi-warren-mueller-report-20190423-story.html
Even the Liberal news paper while they hope for enough public outrage to Impeach Trump, but suggests they shy away until there is enough to support it. But he failed to say evidence. Public opinion and outrage not evidence.
So what is the standard needed for Impeachment of President Trump?
The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, and tax evasion.
So I ask you all that are debating this. Remove your bias, remove your opinion and remove your party affiliation and think about it, What has President Trump done that provides a means to impeach him?
gangstonc
Member
The answer to that question is covered upcampaign finance violations and obstructed justice.
Before the Nixon impeachment hearings began, it was a very unpopular idea.
Before the Nixon impeachment hearings began, it was a very unpopular idea.
gangstonc
Member
The ones that gave her an 80% chance.
- Admin
- #4,955
I guess thats where I differ. I don't care what the idea is. If their are facts to support it then I am for it. I haven't seen any.
gangstonc
Member
The Mueller report has all you need
. The stormy payments and cover up are well documented in the news.
Evan
Member
The number of Venezuelans begging on the streets here in Colombia is truly sad. Had a guy stop me in Cartagena the other day while we were entering the grocery store. He waived his Venezuelan passport and said "please help me, I have my wife and kids with me and we're starving." Not hungry... STARVING. There's a difference, obviously.
I'm always reminded when visiting Colombia how fortunate and blessed I am to have been born in the United States. Our country doesn't have real poverty or people who experience real starvation or true hunger. That said, it is also always amazing how much cheaper medical care, prescription drugs, and dental work are here. An albuterol inhaler costs around 4 USD. Most people will pay between 30-50 USD in insurance co-pays for the same inhaler in the US. A full dental cleaning and laser whitening runs less than 40 USD. Just a cleaning can be had for as cheap as 20 USD. And guess what, prices are not so cheap and reasonable because of a single-payer system. Colombia's public health system is very mediocre by American standards. Healthcare is cheaper here because insurance companies actually have to compete as do medical providers. The private healthcare system here is what the vast majority of people use.
It goes without saying that there are plenty of downsides other than poverty here. Crime is still a major problem although just a bit of common sense and street smarts means the average person here should never encounter an issue. Whenever I'm here I never stop looking around or paying close attention to my surroundings. Don't flash money or wear expensive jewelery, don't use your smartphone walking down the sidewalk, etc. All common sense stuff. Basically, don't give papaya. In Colombia, "dar papaya" basically means not paying attention or drawing attention to your wealth ostentatiously. It sort of means "asking to be robbed" if that makes sense.
Beyond that, the most critical thing about Colombia is how involved the government is in every single aspect of life and every transaction and thing you do. Taxes are high. Red tape is omnipresent and a major hassle. Just getting a prepaid SIM or checking into a hotel is a major pain. Documents have to be produced, photo-copied, and the requisite bureaucracy has to take place. It's hard to explain unless you've experienced it, but everyone has a very detailed process with tons of rules for everything that you might want to do. A large part of that is government regulation, but the other part is private companies that care much more about potentially losing $10 than making $100.
I'm always reminded when visiting Colombia how fortunate and blessed I am to have been born in the United States. Our country doesn't have real poverty or people who experience real starvation or true hunger. That said, it is also always amazing how much cheaper medical care, prescription drugs, and dental work are here. An albuterol inhaler costs around 4 USD. Most people will pay between 30-50 USD in insurance co-pays for the same inhaler in the US. A full dental cleaning and laser whitening runs less than 40 USD. Just a cleaning can be had for as cheap as 20 USD. And guess what, prices are not so cheap and reasonable because of a single-payer system. Colombia's public health system is very mediocre by American standards. Healthcare is cheaper here because insurance companies actually have to compete as do medical providers. The private healthcare system here is what the vast majority of people use.
It goes without saying that there are plenty of downsides other than poverty here. Crime is still a major problem although just a bit of common sense and street smarts means the average person here should never encounter an issue. Whenever I'm here I never stop looking around or paying close attention to my surroundings. Don't flash money or wear expensive jewelery, don't use your smartphone walking down the sidewalk, etc. All common sense stuff. Basically, don't give papaya. In Colombia, "dar papaya" basically means not paying attention or drawing attention to your wealth ostentatiously. It sort of means "asking to be robbed" if that makes sense.
Beyond that, the most critical thing about Colombia is how involved the government is in every single aspect of life and every transaction and thing you do. Taxes are high. Red tape is omnipresent and a major hassle. Just getting a prepaid SIM or checking into a hotel is a major pain. Documents have to be produced, photo-copied, and the requisite bureaucracy has to take place. It's hard to explain unless you've experienced it, but everyone has a very detailed process with tons of rules for everything that you might want to do. A large part of that is government regulation, but the other part is private companies that care much more about potentially losing $10 than making $100.
Evan
Member
High crimes and misdemeanors is commonly misconstrued to mean a serious crime or an indictable offense. That's not at all what the Founder's intended, and their debate on this issue is found in numerous historical records. A "high" crime simply means that one must be an official and have committed an act that violates the oath of their office, brings disrepute onto their office, engaged in unethical behavior, breached the public trust, or somehow injured society through misbehavior or by undermining the standards of law, morality, and/or the Constitution.
High crimes and misdemeanors don't require a statutory offense to have been committed or an indictable criminal act to have occurred. But, without question, obstructing justice, suborning perjury, and abusing the power of one's office are absolutely criminal offenses. But the Founder's never intended nor wanted for impeachment to require an officeholder to have committed an actual crime or there be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Those are criminal standards for ordinary people, and the Founders believed that the standards of behavior, morality, and ethics for an officeholder should be SIGNIFICANTLY higher than those standards that exist for an ordinary person. In fact, one thing they all agreed upon, was that if a President lied to or mislead the public (unless it pertained to strategic needs in war-time) it would be considered a perjury of their oath and an abuse of the power of their office, and such behavior unquestionably merited impeachment.
If anything, our overall history of impeachment, especially in modern times, has been significantly less aggressive and more deferential to officials in power than the Founders ever intended. Remember, they didn't want a King - - they wanted a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.
So, not only is there a preponderance of evidence that Trump has committed criminal acts while in office (which was actually the standard the Founders intimated they wanted for impeachment...not beyond a reasonable doubt), but he has clearly lied to the public and perjured his oath in addition to numerous other abuses of power. The Founders believed that "high crimes and misdemeanors" meant offenses that are a "crime" and misdemeanor when committed by a federal official/officeholder but wouldn't be if done by an average citizen.
Our modern system has bastardized impeachment to mean a standard well above that that would be applied to an ordinary person. Congress has allowed the Executive branch to become a monolithic and almost unequaled branch of government answerable to no one. It's well past time for that to be corrected, and the current Congress cannot sit back and wring their hands that prior Congresses shirked their Constitutional duties and that out system of government has evolved. The Constitution was meant to be a document that withstood the test of time, and the current authority that the Executive branch has obtained is unquestionably not what the Founders intended or envisioned. Trump is but the most recent example of an out of control Executive branch, but is just so happens that his actions and behaviors are so egregious that they merit an intervention rarely contemplated in modern American history. He should be impeached, convicted, and removed from office. The evidence available is CONSIDERABLY more than sufficient to provide for this remedy.
- Admin
- #4,959
To be Honest the U.S. Government hasn't been Of, By, or For the people in quite some time. Sure the U.S. Government does provide some benefit to the people living in its borders, but the Government has been about the people who are elected to run it and their beneficiaries much like a Monarchy. That said, I agree with you that Congress has given many of its duties over to the executive branch which I holy disagree with.
As far as the Mueller report goes, I clearly see interference with the election, but not by the Trump Campaign. And quite honestly the information the Russians were feeding the American People, most of that was already know well before the campaign started. They may have been posting more of it around, but unless you had your head in the sand, that information was known. What Clinton was doing had been all over the news media.
As far as obstruction, not seeing it. He made statements. If your Republican, you don't see obstruction. If your Democrat, you see obstruction. If you're independent, it depends on what side of the issues you hang your hat. There is no real clear evidence of obstruction. If there was, the minute the Mueller report drops, the Democrats would have already pursued Impeachment hearings.
Kory
Member
No one has been more consistently wrong on American foreign policy than Joe Biden.
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