Severe WX December 10 & 11, 2021 Severe Threat (8 Viewers)

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Yes... Just watched that part and came on here to comment.
1. What on earth was that polling thing? Some people were seriously suggesting a cracked foundation of a well built home should be rated EF2. To me, that is pretty ridiculous. I didn't quite understand what that was though, so if I am misunderstanding, please correct me.
2. The trees. This part really frustrated me. The trees were not right next to the structure (if I remember correctly). This sounds awfully 'I know more than NWS' and I apologise, but surely they must know that the strongest wind core can be narrow. and stuff like that, with the strongest winds being in one place and not a little distance away?

This as well. I noticed at the beginning they said 'surveying has changed in the past 10 years, we are learning more etc'. However, I must agree that change seems to be some idea of normal or generally well-built houses not being rated EF5, which occurred I would think after Vilonia (at least aided by it). They showed a comparison to a home in Cambridge Shores with some debris on the foundation, and a home in what I think was the Moore 2013 tornado, saying this is what EF5 damaged looks like etc, when some of the homes in Bremen looked like that, and were generally well built. shown on the same presentation.

Sorry for this jumbled rant. I hope that at least some of my points managed to come across, but this will be staying in my head for a while...

I wonder maybe, with vehicle + other DIs being added, we may see some change, I'm not sure though.
It seems like Incredible Phenomena tends to happen with violent tornadoes of mid to high-end EF4+ intensity.
 

Brice Wood

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Also, did anyone notice that large orange text at the bottom of the page during the EF4 vs EF5 slide? It says "This tornado and its damage will be researched for years to come. Evidence may arise that could push it into the EF5 category."

So they are EXPLICITLY saying that after all this, they are STILL considering an upgrade? Personally, this one can go either way rating wise imo, as I think this one did reach EF5 intensity based on contextual clues, but there wasn't any "slam dunk" EF5 structural damage from what I have seen. But it's at least a silver lining knowing that upgrades well after the fact are indeed an option.
That last sentence told me something. Maybe they learned they messed up rating the Vilonia tornado years later. I hope they actually do look back into this and give the mayfield tornado a rating truly deserves. And I hope this is a step forward when rating high-end tornadoes that receive a low rating, and I’m talking about the Pembroke example. They could’ve given that tornado an EF3 rating but they’re looking more into it.
 
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Ok so mystery solved with the UK Research Facility. The CMUs that connected the walls to the foundation lacked rebar, and were weakly anchored by small clips. That's a big structural flaw. While the blueprints that were uncovered show a very impressive construction plan, it doesn't appear to have been fully followed by the construction crew.
@buckeye05

Actually, don’t these images show the existence of extensive steel rebar?

11121_40acf4e38fbd939bbc67c839bcef875b.jpg
 

buckeye05

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@buckeye05

Actually, don’t these images show the existence of extensive steel rebar?

11121_40acf4e38fbd939bbc67c839bcef875b.jpg
The visual presence of rebar does not automatically equal proper construction methods.

It’s more thoroughly addressed in the video, but it’s not as simple as just saying “look I see rebar, so that can’t be valid”. That photo shows the rebar within the wall itself, but the issue was at the foundation to wall junction. The problem was that the rebar didn’t even extend all the way down into the foundation, preventing a continuous load. If done properly, there are ways to actually anchor or tie/link the rebar to negate this issue. This is a common structural flaw found at many CMU-walled buildings such as schools.

As I’ve explained before, buildings of this type are very complex, much more so than houses, and we need much more detail and explanation than just photos to draw conclusions. Looking at a photo showing a pile of crushed CMU and rebar and thinking you have enough info is presumptuous.
 

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Almost half year past, the scar of Mayfield tornado was even more pronounced in forest area due to season change. The stability (intensity, width, direction) of the scar was truely something else, like a laser beam.
FRm9ZDkXMAcHDdq.jpeg FRm9ZDlWQAIwN1F.jpeg
 

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TH2002

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Almost half year past, the scar of Mayfield tornado was even more pronounced in forest area due to season change. The stability (intensity, width, direction) of the scar was truely something else, like a laser beam.
View attachment 14010 View attachment 14009
Looks like there was a second tornado that crossed the Land Between the Lakes? Which one was that, I don't recall hearing about a second tornado doing that, though that's probably because of my horrible memory.

I also found this photo tonight when looking for damage pictures from a completely unrelated tornado (Guin if anyone is curious) and I don't recall seeing this before. Not sure where this is (I'd like to say Princeton though) but I'd love to know if ground-level photos of this home are available. Or is this just an aerial of that one bizarrely constructed home in Bremen?
Mayfield-aerial.JPG
 

pohnpei

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Looks like there was a second tornado that crossed the Land Between the Lakes? Which one was that, I don't recall hearing about a second tornado doing that, though that's probably because of my horrible memory.

I also found this photo tonight when looking for damage pictures from a completely unrelated tornado (Guin if anyone is curious) and I don't recall seeing this before. Not sure where this is (I'd like to say Princeton though) but I'd love to know if ground-level photos of this home are available. Or is this just an aerial of that one bizarrely constructed home in Bremen?
View attachment 14029
That second scar south of mayfield tornado was Dresden tornado which tracked over 122 miles. Another historic tornado.
This photo was near Princeton UK facility and I believe that was just some sort of barn.
1652249059419.png 1652249059449.png
 
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Looks like there was a second tornado that crossed the Land Between the Lakes? Which one was that, I don't recall hearing about a second tornado doing that, though that's probably because of my horrible memory.

I also found this photo tonight when looking for damage pictures from a completely unrelated tornado (Guin if anyone is curious) and I don't recall seeing this before. Not sure where this is (I'd like to say Princeton though) but I'd love to know if ground-level photos of this home are available. Or is this just an aerial of that one bizarrely constructed home in Bremen?
View attachment 14029

Looks like another tornado hit LBL on April 13th of this year. They've been quite the hot spot recently!

 

TH2002

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What is the large slab at the bottom of this aerial in Bremen? Was this a house or outbuilding?
Bremen-damage-home-aerials.JPG

There is an EF4 DI right at the intersection of 175 & Tarrance Rd that mentions "one brick home collapsed, another swept off" so is that foundation what the DI is referring to, or is it referring to yet another bizarrely (or flat out poorly) constructed home? The DI does include three photos, two showing a leveled home and this one photo, which is honestly hard to understand even WITH context, but I believe this is a garage slab in the foreground:
1588313
 
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i think enough time has past. can someone list all of the potential EF5 DI's both contextual and structural. i dont get it. they didnt have to go, 205, 210 mph EF5. 200> MPH would have been fine. but yeah i think that this tornado proved we'll never be seeing another EF5 rating again...unless we see another super outbreak or moore/jarrell type event.
 
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Sorry to say this but I feel like it is getting to be almost next to impossible for a tornado to be rated EF5. The two no F5/EF5 streaks have been over the past 25 years. The first lasting from May 3, 1999 to May 4, 2007. This more recent streak will be 9 years since the last tornado was rated EF5. Here is how I feel anymore about higher end events.

EF3'S...ENDANGERED
EF4'S...CRITICALLY ENDANGERED
EF5'S...EXTINCT
 

TH2002

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i think enough time has past. can someone list all of the potential EF5 DI's both contextual and structural. i dont get it. they didnt have to go, 205, 210 mph EF5. 200> MPH would have been fine. but yeah i think that this tornado proved we'll never be seeing another EF5 rating again...unless we see another super outbreak or moore/jarrell type event.
What peaked my interest is:
  • The trenches that were scoured NE of Cayce.
  • Multi-story, well built brick buildings completely destroyed in Mayfield along with intense vehicle damage.
  • Multiple well built homes in Cambridge Shores, although context along this portion of the path was relatively weak compared to what happened elsewhere.
  • Some empty slabs (homes?) along Meadowbrook Drive in Princeton
  • A large building (likely a church) that was swept away in Earlington.
  • The photos I posted from Bremen, along with a vague DI that mentions a brick home was swept away.
 

pohnpei

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What is the large slab at the bottom of this aerial in Bremen? Was this a house or outbuilding?
View attachment 14149

There is an EF4 DI right at the intersection of 175 & Tarrance Rd that mentions "one brick home collapsed, another swept off" so is that foundation what the DI is referring to, or is it referring to yet another bizarrely (or flat out poorly) constructed home? The DI does include three photos, two showing a leveled home and this one photo, which is honestly hard to understand even WITH context, but I believe this is a garage slab in the foreground:
1588313
I believe It was an outbuilding.
IMG_20220519_085017.jpg
 

pohnpei

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For Bremen, most likely the strongest part of entire path. The tornado probably didn't swept away other well built house other than the 190mph rating hoise. But I noticed that some extent of back convergence treefall pattern in certain places. It has already been proved that only really high end tornados can do back convergence treefall pattern in some researchs, especially for fast moving tornados. And I only noticed a few cases in reality includes Smithville, Hackleburg and Bassfield.
mmexport1651649950406.jpg
Img_2022-05-04-03-35-43.jpg
I didn't notice this kind of treefall pattern in any other part of its path.
IMG_20220504_170542.jpg Img_2022-05-04-05-02-18.jpg
The most perfect example of back convergence
Sometimes you have to admit this tornado is in its own league.
Recommend to read:https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4907/12/1/17/htm
 
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pohnpei

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What peaked my interest is:
  • The trenches that were scoured NE of Cayce.
  • Multi-story, well built brick buildings completely destroyed in Mayfield along with intense vehicle damage.
  • Multiple well built homes in Cambridge Shores, although context along this portion of the path was relatively weak compared to what happened elsewhere.
  • Some empty slabs (homes?) along Meadowbrook Drive in Princeton
  • A large building (likely a church) that was swept away in Earlington.
  • The photos I posted from Bremen, along with a vague DI that mentions a brick home was swept away.
I believe that was likely the brick house swept away in Bremen.
269660348_6933314320042131_4500237240330612618_n.jpg
Before after of a house in Bremen
873ee5a57c90526b04fcb3dffeac8f22-uncropped_scaled_within_1344_1008.png 269675580_6933315230042040_8236493422284417966_n.jpg
 

MNTornadoGuy

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What peaked my interest is:
  • The trenches that were scoured NE of Cayce.
  • Multi-story, well built brick buildings completely destroyed in Mayfield along with intense vehicle damage.
  • Multiple well built homes in Cambridge Shores, although context along this portion of the path was relatively weak compared to what happened elsewhere.
  • Some empty slabs (homes?) along Meadowbrook Drive in Princeton
  • A large building (likely a church) that was swept away in Earlington.
  • The photos I posted from Bremen, along with a vague DI that mentions a brick home was swept away.
The church in Earlington was a frail-looking structure that seemed to be constructed similarly to a garage.
 

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