Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[gangstonc]

Well, they did come across as bullies without his help. The entire afternoon was bullying for the most part.

I wish he would have dialed back some of the rhetoric but dammit if I'm innocent and being dragged through the mud I'm likely going to be a little pissy at times as well.

I'm not sure I understand what independents and moderate GOP woment have to do with this - he only needs to convince 51 Republicans to vote yes, and I think Susan Collins and others will fall in line when it comes time to count votes.

I do think his approval will hurt the Republicans in November, just like I feel it will help them if he is rejected. He's going to be a political issue as we near mid terms.

I can’t help but think this will hurt the republicans in the eyes of female voters. The republicans should have just trotted out another conservative judge.

 

[Mike S]

I can’t help but think this will hurt the republicans in the eyes of female voters. The republicans should have just trotted out another conservative judge.

people have been saying that all day but if he is indeed innocent, why do that? Why cave and show the Democrats their tactics work?

 

[ARCC]

Taking the middle road shows it is obvious Kavanaugh is a liar. That makes him ineligible.

Maybe so, but its not enough to not warrant a vote. If the senators dont like him, they need to pull up their big underwear and say so. The democrat effort to not let this get to a vote with endless investigation needs to be thrown to the rubbish pile.

 

[gangstonc]

people have been saying that all day but if he is indeed innocent, why do that? Why cave and show the Democrats their tactics work?

I’m not convinced this is a tactic.

 

[gangstonc]

Maybe so, but its not enough to not warrant a vote. If the senators dont like him, they need to pull up their big underwear and say so. The democrat effort to not let this get to a vote with endless investigation needs to be thrown to the rubbish pile.

This is the way it is done now since Merrick Garland. This is the new normal. Mitch McConnell went low and the Democrats are willing to go low too.

 

[gangstonc]

The ABA saying to delay is a big deal. Just today Lindsey Graham called them the “gold standard.”

 

[Evan]

I’m not convinced this is a tactic.

I don't know what more evidence you need. The Democrats tried to destroy Kavanaugh because of politics. Desperate smears by desperate people.

 

[Evan]

Taking the middle road shows it is obvious Kavanaugh is a liar. That makes him ineligible.

Not necessarily. He's a human being under siege and subject to great emotional strain.

Kavanaugh just showed why attorneys don't let their clients talk to the FBI. I don't think he set out today to intentionally mislead people. He simply smelled the setup from a mile away. They were going to impugn his character or judgment, and morality no matter what. He didn't want to give them the bullets for his own execution.

Again, it is an unsolvable conundrum. I'm not happy that he lied to further protect his character. It gave me some pause today as it should to anyone who was watching. But, I've had time to digest it now. It was still a mistake to be so partisan and at times shade the truth or lie, but the man is a human being being subjected to attacks meant to end his career and destroy his personal character and his family.

It is possible to believe that Kavanaugh hurt himself some in the long run, told some fibs he shouldn't have told, and also be willing to show him a large amount of grace and mercy. I'd probably stumble in the same situation were someone to go traipsing through the most immature or rotten parts of my teenage/young adult personal life.

There isn't reason to hold up his nomination. Republicans may want to make some shrewd political calculations here about allowing for some delay for some perfunctory "review of the facts" or something and then hold the floor vote.

One thing is for sure. Nothing, and I mean nothing that Kavanaugh said or did was in any way comparable to the behavior the Dems have evinced throughout this process. They should be ashamed. Just as the GOP should be ashamed for backing Trump.

 

[Evan]

Well, they did come across as bullies without his help. The entire afternoon was bullying for the most part.

I wish he would have dialed back some of the rhetoric but dammit if I'm innocent and being dragged through the mud I'm likely going to be a little pissy at times as well.

I'm not sure I understand what independents and moderate GOP woment have to do with this - he only needs to convince 51 Republicans to vote yes, and I think Susan Collins and others will fall in line when it comes time to count votes.

I do think his approval will hurt the Republicans in November, just like I feel it will help them if he is rejected. He's going to be a political issue as we near mid terms.

Independents and moderate GOP women are a constituency he needs to win over to so that he's seen as a fair, wholly qualified, and suitable nominee for SCOTUS. He needs their backing for the coming 5-4 decisions in which Democrats will attack his legitimacy. That's the short answer.

 

[Evan]

In response to Durbin wanting Kavanaugh to request an FBI investigation, Kavanaugh's reply:

"I welcome whatever the committee wants to do become I'm telling the truth".

Sounds to me like he'd be okay. I see no reason why he should request it, but it is obvious he would accept it as part of this circus if the FBI did investigate.



Feinstein made a fool of herself all day long and over the last few weeks. Over the last 26 years, really. The Democrats could have already had their FBI investigation had their ranking member not played politics with the lives of two people.



Until today I never heard the term Devil's Triangle to mean anything other than a nickname for the Bermuda Triangle. Kavanaugh specifically said it was a game similar to quarters and used 3 cups, hence triangle. Keep in mind the timeline of his use of Devil's Triangle - 1983. Bermuda Triangle theories were rampant in the late 70's/early 80's, with multiple shows and books on the subject. One of the first "grown up" books I ever voluntarily read was a book about the Bermuda Triangle.

My point is it makes sense that a game or activity that includes the use of 3 anythings from that era might get a name like Devil's Triangle. It was a huge subject back then. A drinking game isn't nearly as salacious as some might want it to be, but I tend to believe Kavanaugh on this matter.

I also take umbrage at the perceptions on how he handled his alcohol. Alcohol affects different people differently. I've had a drink or 10 at various times in my life, and there have been times where I might be described as sloppy drunk. I actually have some very vivid memories of a few particular times I was loaded and never remember an instance where I didn't have a memory of something that happened when I was drunk. Again, alcohol affects different people differently.

Was everything Kavanaugh said today 100% accurate? Probably not. Whether or not any inaccuracies were on purpose is something only he knows. The same can be said for Dr. Ford as well.

The time for an FBI investigation has passed. This could have been done 5 times over already. This is gutter politics by the Democrats.




He's completed 6 FBI background checks already. He's vetted. If it was so important for the FBI to investigate this issue, Feinstein could have requested one weeks ago.

I believe Dr. Ford was assaulted. I found her to be mostly convincing, though obviously coached which I believe led to some inconsistencies. I just don't know who assaulted her. She is 100% certain it was Kavanaugh, and he's 100% certain it wasn't him. He also has a lot of important facts on his side. She was 15 and had a beer, and as I said above alcohol affects different people differently. Who knows what that one beer did to her and just how much it may have clouded her judgement.

Its an unfortunate situation anyway you look at it, but I think after spending the entire day watching and listening to this testimony(I happened to be home today) the only course of action I feel we should take from here is to allow the Senate to vote on Kavanaught's confirmation.

Oh, I think he clearly lied and it was intentional. I have to call it as I see it, Mike. Especially in the age of Trump. Let's be honest - there's a lot of pent up rage and toxicity because of Trump. Sure, the lion's share is about Roe for many people, but the Democrats are doing exactly what their constituents want. As are the Republicans.

I'm guilty of sometimes forgetting this, but I think we absolutely need to remember this in a key moment like this. Politicians are a reflection of society and those that elected them. We've gone down a really dangerous and truly nasty path. Trump helped throw a lot of fuel onto the embers of a building inferno, but he, too, is an embodiment of what a large swath of the American people wanted.

The Democrat's behavior towards Kavanaugh and this open seat have been true gutter politics. The Dems have recently benefited from Trump's insanity to make it appear that their own politics aren't as filthy or partisan as the GOP. So, the Kavanaugh stuff has been an important reminder. But, don't think for even one second that Republicans wouldn't have done the exact same thing and made the same moral justifications to justify it. This is a party that backed Donald Trump and has continued to stand by him as long as he delivers on things like tax cuts and judicial nominations.

It is good that the Democrats decided to crap all over their newfound claims to be about country over party or that they hold the moral high ground. But, that's not the takeaway. If the roles were reversed the GOP would do the same thing - - they've literally already proven that with Trump's election.

The takeaway is how royally screwed we are as a country because neither party are honest brokers of the truth, both are capable of outrageous moral compromises, and we are all as responsible for it as the politicians are. It won't change until we all own up to our share of the blame and demand something different.

I'm glad I had time to marinate on this situation. Ultimately, it is an unsolvable conundrum as far as proving if Kavanaugh is innocent or guilty. He did lie. He did go too far with his partisanship. I'm very sensitive to this in the age of Trump. I don't want to engage in moral relativism or give free passes to someone who might do political things I would agree with. I needed to think to make sure I'm not compromising myself.

I explained this in my post to gaston - I've thought about it and I've come to the conclusion that Kavanaugh should be confirmed. He made mistakes and errors - he is a human being after all. But, a combination of grace and mercy allow me to understand the position he was in. I don't excuse his lying, will continue to call out anymore errors he makes, and will be carefully monitoring his behavior going forward. I'm trying to do a delicate dance and hold him accountable, but also give him the grace and mercy he is due. I hope people understand why this is an incredibly difficult dilemma to resolve. And, I can't let the Democrats' gutter politics cause me to give Kavanaugh (or anyone else) a pass.

I've seen a number of people recently profess to be anti-Trump/never Trump and upset with the GOP, but the Democrats' behavior has caused them to now decide to support Trump in 2020 and essentially become a diehard partisan. That is both incredibly sad and incredibly frustrating. They missed the point entirely. That kind of reaction is EXACTLY why Trump was elected. It is EXACTLY why the Democrats tried to assassinate Kavanaugh's character and were willing to do anything to block his seat.

I'm afraid we are going to learn the wrong lesson from this debacle because anger is the controlling emotion on both sides. Anger is driving the attitudes and logic on both sides. Anger is an extremely powerful, yet inaccurate and dangerous tool. The appropriate emotion here should be sadness at how we've fallen as a country. But, from what I've witnessed, the outrage mob and its anger are making up an overwhelming majority of how people are responding.

So, the chasm deepens; the partisans re-align and welcome back old allies. "The only solution is war" they say, forgetting that war is what got them here.

 

[Mike S]

If the roles were reversed the GOP would do the same thing - - they've literally already proven that with Trump's election.

I almost said this exact same thing. I mean, we all know that would be the case. Well, most of us know.

Nothing has changed for me regarding 2020. Trump is still the same person I couldn't vote for in 2016 and it won't happen in 2020. I do think he'll receive more votes than he did in 2016, with the only question being how effective will the Democrats GOTV campaign will be.

 

[gangstonc]

I don't know what more evidence you need. The Democrats tried to destroy Kavanaugh because of politics. Desperate smears by desperate people.

If Ford was really assaulted by Kavanaugh, then it’s not a tactic. We will never know because a proper investigation won’t be done.

Kavanaugh has proven he’s a liar. Let Trump nominate somebody else. The Dems let gorsuch through.

I would contend this is just as much a republican tactic to protect trump as anything else. Was he on any short lists before Mueller started turning up the heat? What’s the difference between Kavanaugh and other conservative judges? What role does his view on presidential power have?

 

[Evan]

Evidently, someone else also thought yesterday was a lot about anger...

 

[Kory]

Jeff Flake, a key part in Kavanaugh’s nomination, has come out and said he supports him for the Supreme Court. That is huge.

 

[Kory]

It’s all about abortion with these protestors. A woman yelling at Jeff Flake about how Kavanaugh will “tell women what to do with their bodies.”

Nah, we just want every one in this country to have the basic human right and that is life. Sorry, we want to stop cold blooded murder being committed every minute in this country.

 

[Arcadia]

If Ford was really assaulted by Kavanaugh, then it’s not a tactic. We will never know because a proper investigation won’t be done.

Kavanaugh has proven he’s a liar. Let Trump nominate somebody else. The Dems let gorsuch through.

I would contend this is just as much a republican tactic to protect trump as anything else. Was he on any short lists before Mueller started turning up the heat? What’s the difference between Kavanaugh and other conservative judges? What role does his view on presidential power have?

Listen, if Feinstein cared about Ford she wouldn't have held the information for 6-8 weeks. She would have turned it over to be investigated. She. Did. Not. She waited until the eleventh hour and USED it as a POLITICAL WEAPON to stop the vote. That's what happened. That is the ugly truth. If you're upset that an investigation is not underway blame Feinstein.

As for Kavanaugh being a "proven liar" ... that's a bit of a stretch. Do you know for certain he lied about his yearbook? I don't. Evan is assuming he is lying about it - and maybe he is.... but it's not proven. Do you know what is proven? That Ford lied about her fear of flying. She also proved that she is terrible with remembering dates and times, even recent ones. She also doesn't know who paid for her polygraph, which I find odd. She can't remember if she took it the day of her grandmother's funeral or the day after. She's proven that her memory is not reliable. People thought she was credible. I didn't. Yesterday was not a court of law. That's a good thing for her, because her testimony would be dismantled rather easily. And in truth, the only reason anyone is listening to her now and taking her seriously at all is because of the political setting and what it could possibly mean. Because she has no evidence. It's political.

And this isn't directed at you gangstonc, but I wanted to say something about what people are saying about his anger and his tears yesterday. Because God forbid the man show he is a human being. The media, most of them, are despicable. I've listened to some say he threw a temper tantrum. I've listened to them say that "If a woman were to show that much emotion she would be accused of not being fit to be in a leadership role" and on and on and on. And it's all just crap. Yesterday, the media decided that whatever Kavanaugh did would be wrong. He was never in a position to win. Not enough emotion they would say he was detached and remote. Too much and he's too emotional for leadership. For ten days his character has been murdered with their help and for them to say...how dare he get angry! I suppose the only person allowed to show emotion is the woman. Well, if any of you are ever visciously attacked - called a rapist - accused of sexual assault - may I suggest that you keep your response measured. Don't show too much emotion. I mean, we're only talking about your life. No need to get carried away.

Yes, he is being considered for one of the highest positions in the land and should always behave in a professional manner. But he wasn't being vetted yestereday for his job skills. He was being accused of sexual assault. He's been accused of gang raping women. It was altogether personal. I think he's kept a cool head until now. What we saw yesterday was a human being behaving like a human being defending himself after days of character assassination. This attitude that he shouldn't have reacted this way is completely unfair. He had every reason to react this way. And unless you find yourself sitting in the same seat as he is, no one has the right to say how he should react.

 

[gangstonc]

Listen, if Feinstein cared about Ford she wouldn't have held the information for 6-8 weeks. She would have turned it over to be investigated. She. Did. Not. She waited until the eleventh hour and USED it as a POLITICAL WEAPON to stop the vote. That's what happened. That is the ugly truth. If you're upset that an investigation is not underway blame Feinstein.

As for Kavanaugh being a "proven liar" ... that's a bit of a stretch. Do you know for certain he lied about his yearbook? I don't. Evan is assuming he is lying about it - and maybe he is.... but it's not proven. Do you know what is proven? That Ford lied about her fear of flying. She also proved that she is terrible with remembering dates and times, even recent ones. She also doesn't know who paid for her polygraph, which I find odd. She can't remember if she took it the day of her grandmother's funeral or the day after. She's proven that her memory is not reliable. People thought she was credible. I didn't. Yesterday was not a court of law. That's a good thing for her, because her testimony would be dismantled rather easily. And in truth, the only reason anyone is listening to her now and taking her seriously at all is because of the political setting and what it could possibly mean. Because she has no evidence. It's political.

And this isn't directed at you gangstonc, but I wanted to say something about what people are saying about his anger and his tears yesterday. Because God forbid the man show he is a human being. The media, most of them, are despicable. I've listened to some say he threw a temper tantrum. I've listened to them say that "If a woman were to show that much emotion she would be accused of not being fit to be in a leadership role" and on and on and on. And it's all just crap. Yesterday, the media decided that whatever Kavanaugh did would be wrong. He was never in a position to win. Not enough emotion they would say he was detached and remote. Too much and he's too emotional for leadership. For ten days his character has been murdered with their help and for them to say...how dare he get angry! I suppose the only person allowed to show emotion is the woman. Well, if any of you are ever visciously attacked - called a rapist - accused of sexual assault - may I suggest that you keep your response measured. Don't show too much emotion. I mean, we're only talking about your life. No need to get carried away.

Yes, he is being considered for one of the highest positions in the land and should always behave in a professional manner. But he wasn't being vetted yestereday for his job skills. He was being accused of sexual assault. He's been accused of gang raping women. It was altogether personal. I think he's kept a cool head until now. What we saw yesterday was a human being behaving like a human being defending himself after days of character assassination. This attitude that he shouldn't have reacted this way is completely unfair. He had every reason to react this way. And unless you find yourself sitting in the same seat as he is, no one has the right to say how he should react.

Feinstein was asked by Ford to hold the letter.

Ford lied about flying. Kavanaugh lied about his yearbook and partying ways. He also perjured himself in his first hearing. The man is a liar.

They should talk to Mark Judge and let the FBI investigate for a week. I don’t understand the rush for a lifetime job. It makes zero sense.

Why did the committee refuse to meet with Ramirez?

 

[JayF]

I believe something happened to Ford. Looking at Kavanaugh's Calendar, I do not believe he was involved.

I ask what proof you have of Kavanaugh and his lying about his partying ways?
How did he perjure himself in the first hearing?

It makes zero sense to you because you do not want Kavanaugh appointed.

They didn't meet with Ramirez because her story is completely unbelievable.

 

[Arcadia]

Feinstein was asked by Ford to hold the letter.

Ford lied about flying. Kavanaugh lied about his yearbook and partying ways. He also perjured himself in his first hearing. The man is a liar.

They should talk to Mark Judge and let the FBI investigate for a week. I don’t understand the rush for a lifetime job. It makes zero sense.

Why did the committee refuse to meet with Ramirez?

You are ignoring the other things I brought up about Ford, conveniently, and you are making suppositions about Kavanaugh instead. Careful, your bias is showing.

 

[gangstonc]

You are ignoring the other things I brought up about Ford, conveniently, and you are making suppositions about Kavanaugh instead. Careful, your bias is showing.

I said earlier that Ford obviously wasn’t truthful about certain things.

No suppositions about Kavanaugh. He lied during a job interview.