MNTornadoGuy
Member
There are no lowballed DIs from Centreville.
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I actually first heard it with La Plata. It was mentioned as the rationale to downgrade a flattened office building that contained a dentists office from F5 to F4.
Agreed. I do think it was capable of producing much more intense damage than what was observed. It seemed to somehow thread the needle between every town and well-built structure along the path.
MNTornadoGuy
Member
One tornado that I do think could have been rated higher this year is the Ocean Ridge NC tornado. An extremely narrow core or subvortex swept away a house that was very well-anchored, and had clips on the trusses. End-nailing was found in the wall framing which might be why it wasn't given an EF4 rating.
Yeah I feel the same about this one. There are some mixed messages with the aftermath of this one though, as the foundation is CMU and the cars parked there weren’t moved too much or badly damaged. But overall, yeah seems like a strong EF4 candidate. I also question the EF3 rating of the Fultondale, AL tornado from earlier this year. That thing leveled and swept away a lot of homes, tossed cars, and produced tree damage that wasn’t inconsistent with a violent tornado.One tornado that I do think could have been rated higher this year is the Ocean Ridge NC tornado. An extremely narrow core or subvortex swept away a house that was very well-anchored, and had clips on the trusses. End-nailing was found in the wall framing which might be why it wasn't given an EF4 rating.
MNTornadoGuy
Member
I personally think that the EF3 rating of Fultondale is fine. The homes that were leveled and swept away were poorly-built.
For the most part yeah. There is one visible on the DAT that clearly was anchor-bolted though, and the bolts appear to be bent. I know it's just one house, but it was enough to make me wonder.
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locomusic01
Member
It's been around for a long time, just really inconsistently applied. As an example, one of the Moore '99 surveys mentions the idea as a reason why certain homes weren't rated F5 (although others obviously still were). Pretty sure I've seen the same argument in even earlier surveys, but I can't recall specific ones off-hand.
Yes Bridge Creek's survey report definitely set a tone for all the rest.
Not sure where else to post this, but is the DAT not working for anyone else? I'm getting some kind of pop up saying that damage points and other features cannot be added to the map. What's going on? I hope they didn't decide to make it no longer accessible to the public.
Same problem here.
MNTornadoGuy
Member
That happens when there are too many people on the site.
I think this wind engineer's research of Wetumpka tornado 2019 can exactly prove how impotent the EF scale is in some cases.
The fact that all cameras here were on the left side of the direction of the path means there are on the weak side of the tornado. Based on NCDC, the average translation speed of this tornado was about 47mph which means the right side of the tornado was automaticly 95mph stronger than the left side. The damage here was EF0-1 level which means winds ought to present on cameras should be very weak to none but instead winds was really strong. Based on my very immature observation of hurricane's footage, winds showed here were 100mph at least. I know that the wind field of tornado's cannot be completely symmetrical but there was clearly hugh inconsistency here which could to hard to explain.
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CheeselandSkies
Member
FWIW (probably not much), tornado ratings sometimes do get upgraded after the fact. Obviously nowhere near as high-profile of an event, but the Shell Rock/Waverly, IA tornado which I glimpsed on my chase in mid-July was initially rated EF1, then about a month to 6 weeks later I looked at the DMX event page again and found that it had been upgraded to an EF2.
MNTornadoGuy
Member
Some of the tornadoes from the 2010 Arizona tornado outbreak were upgraded 10 years after the event.
tornado examiner
Member
criteria for an ef5 tornado now adays.
large wood frame brick home reinforced beyond even above average standards is swept away without any influence from debris. ground must be scoured and every tree in the area must be completely debarked. anchor bolts need to be snapped and the house needs to be brand new.
this kind of strictness is just way way too much.
large wood frame brick home reinforced beyond even above average standards is swept away without any influence from debris. ground must be scoured and every tree in the area must be completely debarked. anchor bolts need to be snapped and the house needs to be brand new.
this kind of strictness is just way way too much.
Tomcats Forever!
Member
Entire foundation slab blown away and broken up , first time ever confirmed... NWS: So?
tornado examiner
Member
oh....and dont forget the toenail clippings...or whatever those were called. and PROPERLY SIZED bolts....and washers. yes...they've actually done that. rated a home as ef4 because it didnt have properly sized anchor bolts. WHY???? talking about one of the ef4's on may 24 2011. both of which should be rated ef5....the other one got jaded because of debris impact.
tornado examiner
Member
i have a new DOD proposal and a change to the EF-scale.
one-two family residence
DOD-11. foundation slab cracked, buckled. (lb 190. exp 210. up 230)
DOD-12. large chunks of, or entire slab uplifted, crumpled, or lifted away entirely. (lb 220. exp 230+. up 230++)
and. EF4 winds. (170-199)
EF5 winds (200+)
no more 200mph EF4's nws.
take my extremely unprofessional proposal as nothing more than a suggestion based on personal experience and inference.
one-two family residence
DOD-11. foundation slab cracked, buckled. (lb 190. exp 210. up 230)
DOD-12. large chunks of, or entire slab uplifted, crumpled, or lifted away entirely. (lb 220. exp 230+. up 230++)
and. EF4 winds. (170-199)
EF5 winds (200+)
no more 200mph EF4's nws.
take my extremely unprofessional proposal as nothing more than a suggestion based on personal experience and inference.
tornado examiner
Member
is it safe to say that the mayfield tornado was so powerful that it didnt really matter much that radar was looking 3000+ high at it? im pretty sure it was strong enough and so well organised that there wouldnt have been that much of a decrease in velocities at ground level. right?
