• Welcome to TalkWeather!
    We see you lurking around TalkWeather! Take the extra step and join us today to view attachments, see less ads and maybe even join the discussion.
    CLICK TO JOIN TALKWEATHER
  • Current Tropical Systems
    Erin

Severe Weather Threat May 17-19, 2025

Lake Martin EF4 said:
No Vilonia still holds the record for "worst survey of all time". Chapman and Bakersfield were bad but they didn't screw up ratings for years to come like Vilonia did.
Click to expand...
Borderline EF4 damage being rated low-end EF2? That's much worse than candidate EF5 damage being rated high-end EF4, imo
 
OH-IOan said:
Borderline EF4 damage being rated low-end EF2? That's much worse than candidate EF5 damage being rated high-end EF4, imo
Click to expand...
Then that makes it a candidate for "worst survey" strictly counting the severity of the lowballing, but.Vilonia was worse as it single handedly screwed up ratings for a good 2-3 years afterward including several notable events.
 
Lake Martin EF4 said:
Then that makes it a candidate for "worst survey" strictly counting the severity of the lowballing, but.Vilonia was worse as it single handedly screwed up ratings for a good 2-3 years afterward including several notable events.
Click to expand...
Well, that isn't the survey's fault, it's the other surveyor's fault for making it an issue. I agree that Vilonia was wrongly rated, but disagree about it being the worst survey ever. We'll just have to agree-to-disagree, then.
 
I'd say what I truly think about the Ginnell, KS survey on here but I'd likely be timed out by a moderator. Genuinely one of the worst surveys I have ever seen.

Also, I can guarantee that if NWS Little Rock or NWS Jackson (MS) rated this it'd mid-high end EF-4. Based off of NWS Paducah's survey of the Marion, IL EF-4, then they might have rated it EF-5.
 
Ozonelayer said:
I'd say what I truly think about the Ginnell, KS survey on here but I'd likely be timed out by a moderator. Genuinely one of the worst surveys I have ever seen.

Also, I can guarantee that if NWS Little Rock or NWS Jackson (MS) rated this it'd mid-high end EF-4. Based off of NWS Paducah's survey of the Marion, IL EF-4, then they might have rated it EF-5.
Click to expand...
Really hoping another WFO goes to them and tells them that they messed up several DIs. Has that ever happened before?
 
Ozonelayer said:
Based off of NWS Paducah's survey of the Marion, IL EF-4, then they might have rated it EF-5.
Click to expand...
This may sound like a crazy conspiracy theory but I think the hesitation to rate any tornado an EF-5 is not just from individual offices but also from the higher-ups within the NWS. Vilonia and Rolling Fork, both rated by different offices, had a DI considered to be EF-5 damage, but ultimately weren't rated EF-5 because there wasn't a second EF-5 DI, which is completely against how the EF scale works.
But that's a discussion for another thread.
 
Maxis_s said:
This may sound like a crazy conspiracy theory but I think the hesitation to rate any tornado an EF-5 is not just from individual offices but also from the higher-ups within the NWS. Vilonia and Rolling Fork, both rated by different offices, had a DI considered to be EF-5 damage, but ultimately weren't rated EF-5 because there wasn't a second EF-5 DI, which is completely against how the EF scale works.
But that's a discussion for another thread.
Click to expand...
Rolling Fork was a very special case. The floral shop arguable EF5 DI was very, very close indeed, but it wasn't rated EF5 just because there wasn't a second one. That statement you're thinking of meant that having an identical structure would increase confidence in a potential EF5. The floral shop wasn't fully swept away (and technically part of it was still standing), so it was rightfully rated 195 mph EF4, although I am of the opinion that the Family Dollar damage later in the path constitutes EF5 damage (at least on the new scale coming up) based on findings by Nick Kras.

Vilonia, on the other hand, was absolute BS, but it isn't representative of modern day LZK.
 
Lake Martin EF4 said:
Rolling Fork was a very special case. The floral shop arguable EF5 DI was very, very close indeed, but it wasn't rated EF5 just because there wasn't a second one. That statement you're thinking of meant that having an identical structure would increase confidence in a potential EF5. The floral shop wasn't fully swept away (and technically part of it was still standing), so it was rightfully rated 195 mph EF4, although I am of the opinion that the Dollar General damage later in the path constitutes EF5 damage (at least on the new scale coming up) based on findings by Nick Kras.

Vilonia, on the other hand, was absolute BS, but it isn't representative of modern day LZK.
Click to expand...
Wasn't Little Rock behind the Lake City rating earlier this year? Or was that Memphis?
 
Lake Martin EF4 said:
Rolling Fork was a very special case. The floral shop arguable EF5 DI was very, very close indeed, but it wasn't rated EF5 just because there wasn't a second one. That statement you're thinking of meant that having an identical structure would increase confidence in a potential EF5. The floral shop wasn't fully swept away (and technically part of it was still standing), so it was rightfully rated 195 mph EF4, although I am of the opinion that the Dollar General damage later in the path constitutes EF5 damage (at least on the new scale coming up) based on findings by Nick Kras.

Vilonia, on the other hand, was absolute BS, but it isn't representative of modern day LZK.
Click to expand...
New scale?

Are you able to talk about it here? Or should we take it to another thread?
 
Lake Martin EF4 said:
Rolling Fork was a very special case. The floral shop arguable EF5 DI was very, very close indeed, but it wasn't rated EF5 just because there wasn't a second one. That statement you're thinking of meant that having an identical structure would increase confidence in a potential EF5. The floral shop wasn't fully swept away (and technically part of it was still standing), so it was rightfully rated 195 mph EF4, although I am of the opinion that the Dollar General damage later in the path constitutes EF5 damage (at least on the new scale coming up) based on findings by Nick Kras.

Vilonia, on the other hand, was absolute BS, but it isn't representative of modern day LZK.
Click to expand...
Agreed, NWS Little Rock is one of the best of the best.
OH-IOan said:
Wasn't Little Rock behind the Lake City rating earlier this year? Or was that Memphis?
Click to expand...
That was NWS Memphis, which whenever a violent tornado happens in their WFO, I await the rating controversy with popcorn.
 
Atlantic said:
New scale?

Are you able to talk about it here? Or should we take it to another thread?
Click to expand...
It's been pretty well discussed in the EF Debate thread. It's the one @joshoctober16 has been keeping tabs on.

Fun fact: It has EF5 for catastrophic damage to multiple hardwood trees (ups Bassfield, Monette and Matador), EF5 for the type of damage at the Family Dollar in Rolling Fork (ups Rolling Fork), POSSIBLY radar winds although that's maybe not in it anymore (ups El Reno and Greenfield), and apparently the homes in Goldsby match for an UB 240 MPH rating on the new scale (possibly ups Goldsby).
 
Lake Martin EF4 said:
It's been pretty well discussed in the EF Debate thread. It's the one @joshoctober16 has been keeping tabs on.

Fun fact: It has EF5 for catastrophic damage to multiple hardwood trees (ups Bassfield, Monette and Matador), EF5 for the type of damage at the Family Dollar in Rolling Fork (ups Rolling Fork), POSSIBLY radar winds although that's maybe not in it anymore (ups El Reno and Greenfield), and apparently the homes in Goldsby match for an UB 240 MPH rating on the new scale (possibly ups Goldsby).
Click to expand...
Is there any link to this study/video? Or just speculation? Given the ratings this year I don't see why the NWS would want to up the scale.
 
Grand Poo Bah said:
What is the hollow material used in the walls of that house? Never seen that before?
Click to expand...
I am probably totally wrong, but it it possible that it's insulated concrete forms? Basically 2 polystyrene forms reinforced with steel rebar, stacked, then filled with concrete when placed.
icf 4.pngicf5.pngicf2.pngicf3.png

Once again, probably not correct, but fun fact, it's what they built Greensburg's business centre out of when rebuilding after the 2007 EF5. Seen here in 'When Weather Changed History - Green Town (Greensburg, KS Tornado)'

Link:
Timestamp of beginning relevant section: 35.24

My apologies, I do not know how to embed a video with timestamps.
 
Lake Martin EF4 said:
It's been pretty well discussed in the EF Debate thread. It's the one @joshoctober16 has been keeping tabs on.

Fun fact: It has EF5 for catastrophic damage to multiple hardwood trees (ups Bassfield, Monette and Matador), EF5 for the type of damage at the Family Dollar in Rolling Fork (ups Rolling Fork), POSSIBLY radar winds although that's maybe not in it anymore (ups El Reno and Greenfield), and apparently the homes in Goldsby match for an UB 240 MPH rating on the new scale (possibly ups Goldsby).
Click to expand...
I love to see the tornadoes that deserve EF5 status to get EF5 status.
 
OH-IOan said:
Is there any link to this study/video? Or just speculation? Given the ratings this year I don't see why the NWS would want to up the scale.
Click to expand...
joshoctober16 said:

most of the info comes from the video above
the video under migth show the map for the hurricane prone area?





... also why did one of my prev post got one of its text changed into a emoji....
Click to expand...


More info is discussed in the posts above that one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top