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Political Thread (12 Viewers)


gangstonc

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I found this interesting concerning the ICE raids in Mississippi:

 

ARCC

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No, I know. My point was that people were being critical of the movie without understanding what it's actually about. There are millions of people that now believe Hollywood created a movie that says it is morally justified to hunt Trump supporters. This kind of misinformation never gets corrected, and I think in some cases that's quite intentional.

I'm not referring to ARCC, I'm referring to the social media accounts and right-wing media outlets that pushed this narrative (like Trump on Twitter) even though basic fact-checking or casual research would've shown the movie argues the exact opposite. Again, I think that's intentional, and I believe it's all about inflaming tensions before the 2020 election with the goal of scaring Republican voters.

Angry or fearful voters are more likely to vote than voters who have normal motivations. And they're also more likely to vote for the "Conservative" candidate. This is especially true for Conservative-leaning voters because fear is much more motivating to them than a persuasive argument, and it's a core part of their pysche they cannot change.

Simply put: scare-tactics and fear-mongering work extremely well on most Conservative-leaning voters. So if you want to make sure they vote, and that their vote goes to you, scare the hell out of them and make them believe that the "other side" will harm them in some way and/or alter their life in a negative way.

This could be a fear of social/cultural change, it could be a fear of increased immigration(which is tied to social/cultural change), fear of a right being diminished or taken away (guns, free speech, etc), or fear that the other side will favor a social/cultural group you're not a member of (i.e. minorities or younger voters being given the fruits of your hard work without having to earn it, so that means things like free college, public option for healthcare, welfare benefits, and a reduction in benefits for those receiving Medicare/Social Security).

I could list more, but I think people get the gist of my point, and this isn't some half-baked theory. A lot of hard research shows this to be true, and we're talking double blind studies, brain MRIs, and long term testing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/22/at-yale-we-conducted-an-experiment-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals-the-results-say-a-lot-about-our-political-divisions/?outputType=amp

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201612/fear-and-anxiety-drive-conservatives-political-attitudes?amp&ved=2ahUKEwio06C94f3jAhUQeKwKHb9cBpsQFjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0N4B4eOqLl7C9ZW0S_6-8F&ampcf=1

No one should take this as a criticism of Conservatives - I'm one myself. There are many positives that come from being more attuned to potential threats, or being cautious about rapidly changing the order and structure of society. I could easily lay out several paragraphs of positives that come from being inclined to Conservatism (protecting the unborn, for instance), but that's beyond the scope of my response here. Likewise, I could lay out a number of very negative things associated with having a perspective dominated by Liberal thought -- Liberals are less able to understand competing political/social views, and over-focus on equitable outcomes instead of equitable opportunities in life. Again, that's the beyond the scope of my response.

The Conservative tendency to be more responsive to threats or fears is something I've experienced personally for as long as I can remember. I've always been a very risk averse person and have never been a big fan of change -- especially rapid change. Thankfully, I'm able to balance that against rationally weighing evidence and outcomes, so fear generally doesn't influence me that much as an adult unless it involves my children.

With all of that said, my overall point is that preying on the inherent sensitivity of Conservatives to fear and change is exactly how Trump got elected. It's why from the get-go he focused on immigration and hot-button social issues. It's why he's always played up things like kneeling for the flag, political correctness, a whole host of other things. He focuses on these divisive issues and highlights the extremes of the Democratic party because that's what is most motivating to his base. Misinformation is Trump's friend. Who cares what the moral of the movie actually is if you can convince most of your base it's a story about hunting people just like them? Especially since they're already immensely skeptical and critical of "Hollywood" as a societal influence.

I was questioning ARCC about what he was referring to because I wanted to understand why he felt the movie was "dumb" and I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same movie. If anything, the movie was a smart critique of our current societal divisions, and it is meant to show that Conservatives and Trump supporters are just as human as Democrats or liberals. What's sad is that positive message will be totally ignored in favor of Trump's fear-mongering. It's not the first time he's been able to persuade broad segments of our society through misinformation -- one only need to look at polling data to see the major shifts that have occurred among Republican voters on a number of topics that Trump has propagandized about.
Yeah, that is why I said it was dumb. Regardless of who the heroes in the movie turn out to be, its a very stupid thing to do with the election coming up. It may be people trying to get the Trump base fired up, but knowing Hollywood it is probably them being stupid. As dumb as some of the things Trump says or does, it is amazing how the other side quickly “one ups” him. Either that side is stupid or it’s once again a game where neither side can take full advantage to take control and both sides stay relevant. I believe it’s the latter.
 

JayF

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Xenophobic idiots. This proves the Trump immigration policy is aimed against non whites. Matt, please try to defend this.
There is no way to defend that comment. But the poem doesn't say Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to receive welfare to send back to your country of origin.
 

skelly

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There is no way to defend that comment. But the poem doesn't say Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to receive welfare to send back to your country of origin.
Also too there is a misperception that is promulgated that the Ellis island portal was wide open but it wasn’t. You had to come in officially and legally and you had to provide extensive background information to the INS or whatever the agency was called then. You had to have a sponsor you had to gain employment and meet requirements.

By the way the plants in Mississippi put out an emergency call for workers and plenty of Americans and legal residents showed up. So companies need to stop paying coyotes to come here to pay people under the table for lower wages and working conditions and start hiring people that are already here then if they truly need more workers bring them in legally and officially and stop the human trafficking in exploitative labor practices.

It can’t be that difficult that we also have a guest worker program where you can come here make money legally and take or send money back to Mexico or wherever and you remain a citizen of whatever country you are from and so do your children.
 

gangstonc

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Also too there is a misperception that is promulgated that the Ellis island portal was wide open but it wasn’t. You had to come in officially and legally and you had to provide extensive background information to the INS or whatever the agency was called then. You had to have a sponsor you had to gain employment and meet requirements.

By the way the plants in Mississippi put out an emergency call for workers and plenty of Americans and legal residents showed up. So companies need to stop paying coyotes to come here to pay people under the table for lower wages and working conditions and start hiring people that are already here then if they truly need more workers bring them in legally and officially and stop the human trafficking in exploitative labor practices.

It can’t be that difficult that we also have a guest worker program where you can come here make money legally and take or send money back to Mexico or wherever and you remain a citizen of whatever country you are from and so do your children.
Why didn’t the plant operators get in trouble? See my post above for what may have happened.
 
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skelly

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Matt, why has Donald Trump claimed to have passed the

Why didn’t the plant operators get in trouble? See my post above for what may have happened.
Of course the plant operators are the problem that’s what I was saying. I saw your post.

If you want to bring people in to work then fine that’s a good reason for people to come here. It’s not good to set them up with fake SS# ‘s and not have to treat them fairly under labor rules like you do regular citizens.

It’s just another status quo issue that neither political party intends to solve when in reality it’s not even that complicated. Anything that make common sense that would benefit all involved is de facto a non starter.
 

gangstonc

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Of course the plant operators are the problem that’s what I was saying. I saw your post.

If you want to bring people in to work then fine that’s a good reason for people to come here. It’s not good to set them up with fake SS# ‘s and not have to treat them fairly under labor rules like you do regular citizens.

It’s just another status quo issue that neither political party intends to solve when in reality it’s not even that complicated. Anything that make common sense that would benefit all involved is de facto a non starter.
You are incredibly correct. Politicians have figured out they can get more votes calling out problems rather than actually fixing them.
 

JayF

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You don't drain the Mississippi River by adding water to the tributaries.
You do make the water in the Mississippi River cleaner by cleaning out the tributaries though.
 

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