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Political Thread (21 Viewers)


gangstonc

Member
Messages
1,369
Location
Meridianville
If not, then you don’t see the unborn as a human and that explains your stance.
This is the root of the issue. There has to be a way to definitively define where life begins. It's a question of science.

If you could prove to me that a fetus was truly just some random collection of cells with no soul or anything, then abortions would be ok in my book.
 

Matt

Member
Messages
1,025
Location
Alabaster
Are you serious, Matt? The New American? You know what who runs that site/magazine, right? The freaking John Birch Society. I remember their printed magazine from the late 90s. All the conspiracy theories and insane nuttery that that could be found. Are you not aware of who they are?
I have no idea who they are, I just thought the "content" was pretty accurate.
 

Evan

Member
Messages
949
Location
McCalla, AL
I'm not good with a young girl who is raped by her father being forced to carry his baby.That's not thinking about that child or using "common sense."
Abortions for incest are virtually non-existent. They rarely rarely rarely ever happen. It's a horrible situation for anyone to be in - - no less a young girl - - but I don't see how the proper remedy is to continue the cycle of violence and murder an innocent child.

I also don't see how forcing a young girl to abort her child won't lead to a further sense of victimization. In the example you give she's likely too young to make such a decision, and obviously her father (potentially her mother as well) would probably be disqualified from the decision-making process. That means a guardian ad-litem in conjunction with a judge would make the decision.

I'm not sure what age you were implying, but our court system has frequently intervened in the cases of young girls who have become pregnant due to rape/incest saying that they lack the wisdom and maturity to make such life-altering decisions. The young girl's social worker and guardian ad-litem will then pressure the girl into agreeing to obtain an abortion (this is almost always the case). They then use their influence with the court to make sure a judge orders the abortion (because after all, their young ward agreed, right?). One innocent life is ended, and the other is forever altered by participating in the murder of their unborn child.

I could go into the research that shows young females (25 and below, but most acutely 18 and under) experience a significantly larger and more negative psychological impact than others when having an abortion, but I think most people are already aware of that.
 
Last edited:
Messages
160
Location
Daleville, AL
Special Affiliations
There is another person in this equation. The baby. This violent act resulted in the conception of a human life. I am not good with telling the second victim in this violent act (because there are TWO victims here) that, sorry.... because your father is a monster, you do not deserve to live. Talk about blaming the victim. How one is conceived does not determine the worth of a human life. Either you believe life begins at conception and that life should be protected and is of value or you don't. Pro-life is pro-life.
If a girl has a baby from her father or any close family member then that child is at a significant risk of health problems

Annotation 2019-05-17 224448.png

Image above from https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest

Rape victims IMO should be offered the morning after pill immediately when they file the police report. I like Georgia's law of no abortion after there is a heartbeat about 6 weeks. Alabama's seems extreme but they made it that way deliberately knowing it would be challenged and want to take it to supreme court to overturn Roe V Wade

Something needs to be done when some states are wanting to legalize after-birth abortion for harvesting of organs
 

Evan

Member
Messages
949
Location
McCalla, AL
If a girl has a baby from her father or any close family member then that child is at a significant risk of health problems

View attachment 1671

Image above from https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest

Rape victims IMO should be offered the morning after pill immediately when they file the police report. I like Georgia's law of no abortion after there is a heartbeat about 6 weeks. Alabama's seems extreme but they made it that way deliberately knowing it would be challenged and want to take it to supreme court to overturn Roe V Wade

Something needs to be done when some states are wanting to legalize after-birth abortion for harvesting of organs
That opinion piece from Psychology Today is very suspect as I pulled the meta-study referenced. Either the author of the opinion piece doesn't know how to read clearly-worded analysis or simply cherry-picked the information they thought would best support their opinion. Here's what the peer-reviewed academic study actually says:

Given the almost universal cross-cultural stigma, social disapproval, and legal
sanctions to incestuous unions, there is a paucity of data regarding adverse medi-
cal outcomes in the offspring of incestuous unions. Published studies are fraught
with significant ascertainment biases. These biases, such as lack of paternity
documentation, young maternal age, possible parental disease and/or intellectual
impairment, parental socioeconomic status (or lack of report of this variable), and
complications of unsuccessful attempted pregnancy termination (Bittles, in press).
Table IV summarizes the four most comprehensive published studies of incest
(Adams and Neel, 1967; Baird and McGillivray, 1982; Carter, 1967; Seemanova,
1971). Three of these studies were retrospective, and the controls for matched
nonincestuous pregnancies were highly variable (Baird and McGillivray, 1982;
Carter, 1967; Seemanova, 1971). These studies are also limited in the number
of years that the incestuous progeny were followed. Although the highest risk
for morbidity and mortality would be expected in the first year of life, moderate
medical problems and mental retardation would not be evident until later.
By combining the four sets of data in Table IV, and selecting the cases of
specific autosomal recessive disorders recorded (n = 25), plus major congenital
malformations (n = 34), and nonspecific severe intellectual handicap (n = 25),
84 of 213 (39.4%) of the progeny of incestuous unions had died or were im-
paired (Bittles, in press). This analysis does not control for nongenetic variables.
In the two studies for which nonconsanguineous reference groups were available,
8.0% of the control children (9 of 113) died or had a serious defect (Carter, 1967;
Seemanova, 1971). Thus, the excess level of death and severe defect in the off-
spring of incestuous unions (a proportion of which may have been nongenetic in
origin) was 31.4% (Bittles, in press).
An alternative method of analysis is to use the risks observed in first cousin
unions to calculate mortality and morbidity associated with incest, based on the
coefficient of inbreeding F (refer to Fig. 1). This assumes that risks for mortality
and birth defects are directly scalable with F, which may not be an accurate
assumption, particularly for disorders with complex inheritance. If the excess pre-
reproductive mortality rate among first cousin offspring (who have an F value of
1/16) is 4.4%, then one would predict an excess death rate of approximately 17.6%
for offspring of incestuous unions (with an F value of 1/4). Likewise if the offspring
of first cousin unions are estimated to be at 1.7–2.8% risk above the background
(Table III), then the predicted risk to the offspring of first-degree relatives would
be at 6.8–11.2% risk above the population background for significant birth defects.


[/URL]

In no way do I want this to be construed as defending something as sickening and vile as incest. I agree that victims of incest ARE more likely to suffer excess mortality and morbidity (especially the more consanguineous the relationship happens to be e.g. 1st degree relatives having the highest risk), but it isn't anything near a 50% risk of serious health problems, and the meta-study the opinion piece author twisted to achieve their desired conclusion shows this.

Sheesh, I mean incest is revolting and horrible enough and has plenty of psychological trauma and health risks as it is -- I don't see why the author of the opinion piece felt the need to over-exaggerate the already substantial health risks. The main point of the meta-study is that non-genetic health-risks are not controlled for nor are biases like socio-economic status, maternal age, pre-existing disease, or intellectual impairments. I don't think anyone has to guess that people who engage in 1st degree incest (sibling or parental) are much more likely to have intellectual impairments, come from a poor socio-economic background, have other health issues, etc.

I feel disgusted (not with you apocalyptic) by this entire subject. Incest and rape are two of the most vile things that humanity has to offer and combining the two is just nauseating to a degree that I seriously do feel like vomiting.

At the end of the day we need to protect life. Incest is so incredibly rare as an actual reason for abortion that I truly do not think it even merits this much discussion. Most states that report such data have single digit cases or no reported cases in their abortion data each year. Those who want to continue the practice of abortion will continue to use such marginal examples because they are well aware most Americans don't support elective abortion and aren't aware how rare rape/incest abortions actually are.
 

Arcadia

Member
Messages
147
Location
Huntsville
If a girl has a baby from her father or any close family member then that child is at a significant risk of health problems

View attachment 1671

Image above from https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest

Rape victims IMO should be offered the morning after pill immediately when they file the police report. I like Georgia's law of no abortion after there is a heartbeat about 6 weeks. Alabama's seems extreme but they made it that way deliberately knowing it would be challenged and want to take it to supreme court to overturn Roe V Wade

Something needs to be done when some states are wanting to legalize after-birth abortion for harvesting of organs
If we are talking about a CHILD being raped by her father, the situation is entirely different and I think everyone knows that. The likelihood of a child being able to carry a baby to term is questionable anyhow and would likely NOT carry this child to term. I think we all know that this hypothetical girl was thrown out there to demonstrate what a heartless bill the Alabama abortion bill was and those who support it. My answer was to highlight the fact that in all rape cases resulting in pregnancy that there are actually TWO victims at that point. The woman and the baby. The woman for obvious reasons. But no one ever sees the baby as a victim and it is. It is hated and scorned from the moment of conception. Because of who the father is, they want to kill it. It is not a human being, it is a "product of rape". This life, who had no control with how it came into existence, is being persecuted for the crimes of his/her father. I'm asking for a stay of execution for crimes this little life did not commit. I'm asking the woman to grant nine months of mercy while holding her hand and crying with her. I'm asking for mercy.
 

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