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Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

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My big worry about Trump is his lack of vision. He's impulsive and clearly doesn't/can't think things through to a logical conclusion. I mean, sure. I would love to see American companies keep their manufacturing jobs in the U.S., their home territory. But what are the long term consequences of coercing (threatening?) these companies, rather than honoring free market principles (wait, I thought that's what conservatives liked???)? If we slap 35% tariffs on Mexican imports, what happens to prices of goods?? Deport the Mexican immigrants... what happens to prices of things (produce anyone?) generated by Mexican workers? Blast the heck out of ISIS... of course. Who wouldn't like to see them obliterated to smithereens. What are the downstream consequences of this? I think Obama was too weak on his Mideast policies... trying to walk on eggshells... but I'm worried about Trump's cavalier attitude too. Why can't we find a common sense middle ground with this stuff?
 

Lori

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My big worry about Trump is his lack of vision. He's impulsive and clearly doesn't/can't think things through to a logical conclusion. I mean, sure. I would love to see American companies keep their manufacturing jobs in the U.S., their home territory. But what are the long term consequences of coercing (threatening?) these companies, rather than honoring free market principles (wait, I thought that's what conservatives liked???)? If we slap 35% tariffs on Mexican imports, what happens to prices of goods?? Deport the Mexican immigrants... what happens to prices of things (produce anyone?) generated by Mexican workers? Blast the heck out of ISIS... of course. Who wouldn't like to see them obliterated to smithereens. What are the downstream consequences of this? I think Obama was too weak on his Mideast policies... trying to walk on eggshells... but I'm worried about Trump's cavalier attitude too. Why can't we find a common sense middle ground with this stuff?

My prayer has been (because at this point, that's all we can do) is that he has some advisors that have middle ground common sense AND that he'll listen to them!!
 

WesL

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Just going to leave this here....

hoftas1wy9ww4hxdxndq.jpg


http://gizmodo.com/sean-spicer-just...source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
 

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Evan

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There is a certain amount of cowardice going on in this thread by people who were some of the biggest critics of Obama. They constantly critiqued and demanded answers as it pertained to Obama, and accused his supporters of being kool-aid drinkers incapable of saying anything bad at all about Obama or the Democratic Party.

Some might see it as hypocrisy (that's true too), but it goes beyond that to an act of cowardice because of how boldly these people lambasted those that wouldn't constantly attack and denigrate Obama. They are now completely silent about any criticism of Trump. Almost like they are incapable of saying another bad about him. Perhaps they have drunk the Trump kool-aid. Very interesting... when the shoe is on the other foot...
 
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KoD

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All these executive orders and no comments ? I thought we'd be at 20 pages by now
 

gangstonc

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All these executive orders and no comments ? I thought we'd be at 20 pages by now
I think we all know the orders are basically meaningless. Remember when Obama closed Guantanamo?

Now, the fact that he would issue an executive order with a religious test on holocaust rememberanxe day is rather telling.
 

KoD

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That's the one I was thinking someone would mention. Priority given to Christian immigrants, seems rather unamerican to me.
 

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No shock here. That's why I was hotly contesting anyone saying he was just putting on an act or he wouldn't really do X.

His executive order on immigration was shortsighted, mean-spirited, and will have absolutely zero positive impact on terrorism.

But this is what Trump does. He is a showman, and he completely lacks empathy and understanding. He has no concept of why/how someone is traveling on a non-immigrant or immigrant visa. He is just signing whatever they put in front of him. He's not intellectually curious. Never has been.

This is a guy who said he could learn all he needed to learn on nuclear weapons in an hour. He also said his strategy for fighting terrorism was better than "the generals" yet filled his cabinet with said generals.

He is an immoral, unprincipled, reality TV show star. What did anyone expect? I'm just eager to see how far people will go in defending him.

I'll have a debate on the US immigration system anytime someone wants it. There won't be any takers. Because I know 99% of Americans have only a surface understanding at best of the system. Trump is no different, but he also realizes his base absolutely LOVES this. It is on par with capturing Bin Laden for them.

Trump has the executive authority to do this. Doesn't mean he should. But, again, seems like people only have a problem with executive orders on immigration when it was Obama signing them.
 

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Cato makes the case that Trump does NOT have the authority to issue and enforce his immigration ban via executive order, and it is in fact explicitly illegal because of clear statutory limits set by Congress.

https://www.cato.org/blog/trumps-presidential-ban-immigration-certain-countries-illegal

Honestly this seems pretty convincing to me. I know the President has wide latitude on determining immigration admissibility as Congress delegated that to the President by statute, but there is a clear caveat that comes attached to that power.

I could see a federal judge blocking part or all of Trump's executive order much like what was done with Obama's executive order on immigration. But, in this case, the statutory language is actually extremely specific and clear, and Congress is on record explicitly explaining their intent for including that language in their legislation!!! That means a federal judge is much more likely to slap this down than just partially block it.

I'm honestly frightened at what that would mean. We've seen Trump before when he received a judicial decision he didn't like (Judge Curiel, a sitting federal judge) and he becomes absolutely unhinged and manic. It would not be a very pretty look at our democracy were that to occur. Can you all imagine the sitting President openly fighting with a sitting federal judge and making it personal? I mean... doubt any of us had imagined a sitting President whine repeatedly about his inaugural crowd size, make blatantly false claims about voting fraud, or insult major allies, but it has all happened just this week alone.

I mentioned this earlier, but it is a shame the other forum couldn't be salvaged. I'm interested in hearing from those that savaged Obama's executive order as unconstitutional or an abuse of authority, and find out why Trump's order is different -- especially considering the statute that says he can't do it.
 
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WesL

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I'm all for vetting immigrants, but this Executive Order is mostly showmanship for his supporters who think Christian Good/Muslim Bad. As usual, no thought given to repercussions. Blatant Anti-Muslim discrimination could very likely lead to even more radicalization.

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I agree. I feel a grave mistake has been made with this last decree.


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I'm all for vetting immigrants, but this Executive Order is mostly showmanship for his supporters who think Christian Good/Muslim Bad. As usual, no thought given to repercussions. Blatant Anti-Muslim discrimination could very likely lead to even more radicalization.

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Over half the refugees we took in last year were from Syria or Somalia...that is a recipe for disaster. Something had to change. I applaud him for finally saying that we have to get a grip on what we are doing. Not doing anything because some may "radicalize"(since when do they need another reason?) is like the sanctuary cities lame excuse of not reporting criminals because then need them to tell them who other criminals are.
 
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Stormlover

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He needs media scrutiny and needs to grow a pair and learn to suck up the criticism instead of going on Twitter rants like a teenaged girl. Undermining the press and redefining facts are obvious strategies of dictators. Scary that his supporters go along with this.

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Oh please, you didn't care when Obama was doing even worse...he'll have to go a long way to match him. It's the anti-trump folks that need to grow a pair and stop being precious snowflakes that are so fragile
https://news.grabien.com/story-why-it-will-be-hard-trump-surpass-obamas-record-chilling-pre
 

PerryW

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I'm all for vetting immigrants, but this Executive Order is mostly showmanship for his supporters who think Christian Good/Muslim Bad. As usual, no given to repercussions. Blatant Anti-Muslim discrimination could very likely lead to even more radicalization.

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Agree 100% David. Yes we need to use extreme caution to make sure no terrorists are sneaking into America under the guise of being refugees, but kneejerk, IMO blanket Executive Orders such as the one Trump signed yesterday only serve to inconveinence innocent Americans abroad, and make our enemies in the Middle East more determined to destroy us. I'm sure ISIS and other terrorists will use this as propaganda for recruiting new terrorists/ suicide bombers, etc.

Trump needs to realize this isn't the WWE where everything is scripted and pre-determined; his "playing to the crowd" in the real world can cause unexpected ramifications nobody expected; miscalculations and overreactions that can be catastrophic.
 

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Agree 100% David. Yes we need to use extreme caution to make sure no terrorists are sneaking into America under the guise of being refugees, but kneejerk, IMO blanket Executive Orders such as the one Trump signed yesterday only serve to inconveinence innocent Americans abroad, and make our enemies in the Middle East more determined to destroy us. I'm sure ISIS and other terrorists will use this as propaganda for recruiting new terrorists/ suicide bombers, etc.

Trump needs to realize this isn't the WWE where everything is scripted and pre-determined; his "playing to the crowd" in the real world can cause unexpected ramifications nobody expected; miscalculations and overreactions that can be catastrophic.
They don't need any new reason to not like us. They'll hate us even if we evacuated the middle east. It's all excuses. We have to do what we have to do and thank goodness we have a President that isn't scared to do politically incorrect things to increase our safety.
 
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