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Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread
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Evan
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Obama (D) – 8 yrs in office. Zero criminal indictments, zero convictions and zero prison sentences.
Bush, George W. (R) – 8 yrs in office. 16 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 9 prison sentences.
Clinton (D) – 8 yrs in office. 2 criminal indictments. One conviction. One prison sentence.
Bush, George H. W. (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. One conviction. One prison sentence.
Reagan (R) – 8 yrs in office. 26 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 8 prison sentences.
Carter (D) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. Zero convictions and zero prison sentences.
Ford (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment and one conviction. One prison sentence.
Nixon (R) – 6 yrs in office. 76 criminal indictments. 55 convictions. 15 prison sentences.
Johnson (D) – 5 yrs in office. Zero indictments. Zero convictions. Zero prison sentences.
In the last 53 years, Democrats have been in the Oval Office for 25 of those years, while Republicans held it for 28. In their 25 yrs in office Democrats had a total of three executive branch officials indicted with one conviction and one prison sentence.
In the 28 yrs that Republicans have held office over the last 53 yrs they have had a total of, 120 criminal indictments of executive branch officials. 89 criminal convictions and 34 prison sentences handed down. If you want to count articles of impeachment as indictments, both sides get one more.
This is largely BS dreamed up by the unbiased folks at DailyKos. Cisneros, Hubbell, and the Ag Secretary alone account for more indictments than this list claims existed under Clinton.
The list also seems not to count Democrats that resigned before being indicted yet does the opposite for the GOP.
Evan
Member
It is very notable that Mueller charged Gates and Manafort with FARA and other violations related to registration, paperwork, and false statements. We know that Flynn had not registered and made other technical violations.
Since we know Mueller is charging that, why not charge Flynn? One, he has been indicted and it remains under seal. Has not been revealed yet because it would hinder investigation. Two, he has been indicted and it remains under seal, and it hasn't been disclosed and he hasn't yet been popped because he is cooperating with the government.
There were rumors months ago that Flynn was cooperating. His counsel has definitely been at the Courthouse where the Grand Jury is seated. There's no way Flynn would get away with the exact same violation as Gates and Manafort, and if his indictment wasn't released it is for a specific reason (cooperation or not to disclose investigatory details/info).
The third possibility is that Mueller hasn't yet presented his evidence on Flynn, or hasn't yet concluded his case/investigation on Flynn. With how rapidly they moved on Manafort, it seems highly unlikely they are dragging their feet on Mike Flynn. I bet he's cooperating because they found enough to also charge his son.
Team Trump is claiming today's arrests exonerate Trump and proves there is no Trump/Russia case. I guess they think people didn't notice their unrestrained panic last week and have never ever seen a complex federal case unfold before. If Mueller was done he'd be holding a presser right now. If there was nothing to Russia allegations it'd be in a report that was released this morning.
This thing is not over. It's pace now depends upon how quickly either Manafort or Gates flip (or both), if Flynn is already cooperating, and what evidence Mueller is still collecting on others likely to be indicted (Page, Flynn/Flynn Jr assuming there isn't already a sealed indictment, biz partners of Manafort/Gates, etc).
Mueller didn't bring in such a large team to just prosecute Manafort, Flynn, and the rest of the brazen grifters. He wouldn't need that number of Prosecutors or specialists if this was the whole investigation. This is the tip of the iceberg. Kushner's shady business dealings, failure to truthfully submit federal forms, and corrupt business practices of the Trump organization are all likely to be hit. That ropes in Michael Cohen and potentially Trump family members other than Kushner.
Mueller is too smart to hang his investigation of Trump on just the potential obstruction of justice charge related to Comey. I think he is working hard to find the dirty business dealings and tax violations that Trump or his company have been involved in. When you go for the King you best not miss. Mueller is neither dumb nor lacking in political acumen. If they end up with something on Trump, his company, or family, it will be from multiple angles.
The White House and Trumpville want to spin today as good news. It is never good news when your campaign chairman just went down for corruption that was widely rumored before he worked for you, and even more damning that his corrupt acts continued while he worked for you. Because, as we know, Team Trump has always said the Clintons are responsible for Podesta. Turnabout is fair play.
Evan
Member
I'm actually surprised that Flynn wasn't announced. As I said a few moments ago, he was rumored to be cooperating, but I never fully bought that because I figured he'd be the good loyal General. If anything, the fact that Flynn's charges weren't announced has to terrify the White House.
Additionally, Trump is now claiming publicly that Manafort's crimes occurred "years ago." The indictment is quite clear that Manafort's crimes continued to up until recently and included specific acts while he worked for Trump. Let's see who calls him on his blatant lies.
Trump is obviously trying to deceive his gullible "everything is fake news unless it is about Hillary" base.
Really disturbing that the President continues to urge his political opponents to be investigated to take attention away from the crimes of his inner circle and campaign staff.
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Do you think that the Secret Service's code name for Trump is "Comrade"?
Evan
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Breaking: Trump campaign advisor pleads guilty to impeding FBI investigation into links or coordination between Trump campaign and Russian government efforts to interfere in 2016 Presidential election.
This is not an allegation. This is a Trump campaign advisor ADMITTING to having tried to block the FBI investigation into the Trump Campaign's links to Russian Government interference in our election.
Absolutely huge and forever ends the idea that there's just nothing to Trump/Russia.
The Trump campaign advisor met overseas with a relative of Vladimir Putin and a person who had close links to the Russian Government. Furthermore, the campaign advisor was promised dirt on Hillary Clinton, and worked through a HIGH RANKING TRUMP CAMPAIGN OFFICIAL to setup multiple meetings in Moscow as well as working to arrange a meeting in Russia between Donald Trump and members of Putin's Presidential Office and the Russian Foreign Ministry.
This is a bombshell. This is collusion. This is not alleged. It is part of a guilty plea. A Senior Foreign Policy Advisor AND a High Ranking Trump Campaign Official conspired with Russia.
Wow.
This is not an allegation. This is a Trump campaign advisor ADMITTING to having tried to block the FBI investigation into the Trump Campaign's links to Russian Government interference in our election.
Absolutely huge and forever ends the idea that there's just nothing to Trump/Russia.
The Trump campaign advisor met overseas with a relative of Vladimir Putin and a person who had close links to the Russian Government. Furthermore, the campaign advisor was promised dirt on Hillary Clinton, and worked through a HIGH RANKING TRUMP CAMPAIGN OFFICIAL to setup multiple meetings in Moscow as well as working to arrange a meeting in Russia between Donald Trump and members of Putin's Presidential Office and the Russian Foreign Ministry.
This is a bombshell. This is collusion. This is not alleged. It is part of a guilty plea. A Senior Foreign Policy Advisor AND a High Ranking Trump Campaign Official conspired with Russia.
Wow.
Evan
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Sounds like it should be. At least while he remains President...
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Evan
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Remember, Trump and the White House claim there is no there there.
- Yet you have two foreign policy advisors setting up meetings with Russian officials & Putin family members and meeting with them in Moscow and other overseas locations (Papadopoulos and Page), and at least one of them lied to the FBI about it.
- You have Flynn talking with the Russian Ambassador via phone and lying about the call and its contents. You have Flynn giving a speech at an event in Moscow I'm which he was seated at Putin's table.
- You have family friends of the Trump family setting up a meeting between Don Jr, Kushner, Manafort and a Russian attorney with links to the Moscow Prosecutor's office and other Russian government officials. In the email to Don Jr, the guy setting up the meeting said the meeting was: “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”
- You have Manafort's prior work for the Russian backed President of Ukraine Yanukovych.
- You have Felix Sater, a Trump business partner and associate, that had an office/residence in Trump tower, emailing the following to Trump's personal attorney (Michael Cohen):
“I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected. … Buddy our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”
- You have Trump's numerous statements of praise for Putin and how he controls Russia.
- You have Trump's refusal to condemn Putin's human rights violations, the invasion of Ukraine, and his statements that the United States is just as bad as Putin, and that we kill people in political assassinations, too.
- You have the GOP platform at the GOP Convention being changed from Pro-Ukraine and arming Ukraine, to Russia's desired position for our policy on the invasion.
- You have Trump's refusal to accept his own Intelligence Community's overwhelming statement that Russia attempted to influence our election.
- You have Trump's frequent praise of Wikileaks (which our Intelligence Community considers to be a front for Russian intelligence operations).
- You have Trump and the White House's fervent interest and arm-twisting on the Russia sanctions bill even though they had rarely been involved in the legislative process on Capital Hill at that point and time.
- You have Trump's signing statement and public criticism of the bipartisan and overwhelmingly approved Russia sanctions bill.
- You have the Trump admin's refusal and delay to implement the Russia sanctions bill.
- You have Trump claiming he knows Putin extremely well that later changed into I have nothing to do with Putin and don't know who he is.
- You have Trump kids saying a huge portion of their business is with Russia, and just a few years later Trump claims he doesn't have any business with Russia and knows nothing about the country.
- You have the "am I under investigation/I need loyalty" Comey firing debacle that Trump ADMITS on nationwide TV was because of "Russia."
- You have the Kislyak and Lavrov Oval Office meeting in which Trump outs highly classified information that is beneficial to Russia's top foreign policy priorities in Syria.
- You have the Mueller investigation is based on "fake news" claims.
- You have Kushner forgetting about all the Russians he met with including trying to setup a backchannel using communications equipment in the freaking Russian Embassy.
I could go on as I'm probably neglecting at least another dozen or two "coincidences," but who can continue to claim that there is no there there?
- Yet you have two foreign policy advisors setting up meetings with Russian officials & Putin family members and meeting with them in Moscow and other overseas locations (Papadopoulos and Page), and at least one of them lied to the FBI about it.
- You have Flynn talking with the Russian Ambassador via phone and lying about the call and its contents. You have Flynn giving a speech at an event in Moscow I'm which he was seated at Putin's table.
- You have family friends of the Trump family setting up a meeting between Don Jr, Kushner, Manafort and a Russian attorney with links to the Moscow Prosecutor's office and other Russian government officials. In the email to Don Jr, the guy setting up the meeting said the meeting was: “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”
- You have Manafort's prior work for the Russian backed President of Ukraine Yanukovych.
- You have Felix Sater, a Trump business partner and associate, that had an office/residence in Trump tower, emailing the following to Trump's personal attorney (Michael Cohen):
“I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected. … Buddy our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”
- You have Trump's numerous statements of praise for Putin and how he controls Russia.
- You have Trump's refusal to condemn Putin's human rights violations, the invasion of Ukraine, and his statements that the United States is just as bad as Putin, and that we kill people in political assassinations, too.
- You have the GOP platform at the GOP Convention being changed from Pro-Ukraine and arming Ukraine, to Russia's desired position for our policy on the invasion.
- You have Trump's refusal to accept his own Intelligence Community's overwhelming statement that Russia attempted to influence our election.
- You have Trump's frequent praise of Wikileaks (which our Intelligence Community considers to be a front for Russian intelligence operations).
- You have Trump and the White House's fervent interest and arm-twisting on the Russia sanctions bill even though they had rarely been involved in the legislative process on Capital Hill at that point and time.
- You have Trump's signing statement and public criticism of the bipartisan and overwhelmingly approved Russia sanctions bill.
- You have the Trump admin's refusal and delay to implement the Russia sanctions bill.
- You have Trump claiming he knows Putin extremely well that later changed into I have nothing to do with Putin and don't know who he is.
- You have Trump kids saying a huge portion of their business is with Russia, and just a few years later Trump claims he doesn't have any business with Russia and knows nothing about the country.
- You have the "am I under investigation/I need loyalty" Comey firing debacle that Trump ADMITS on nationwide TV was because of "Russia."
- You have the Kislyak and Lavrov Oval Office meeting in which Trump outs highly classified information that is beneficial to Russia's top foreign policy priorities in Syria.
- You have the Mueller investigation is based on "fake news" claims.
- You have Kushner forgetting about all the Russians he met with including trying to setup a backchannel using communications equipment in the freaking Russian Embassy.
I could go on as I'm probably neglecting at least another dozen or two "coincidences," but who can continue to claim that there is no there there?
gangstonc
Member
I believe Papadopolous is the big news of the day and what will ultimately do trump in.
Evan
Member
But someone who's not President was tangentially involved in something, that even though it was previously investigated, sounds scary. Can't we focus on that instead?
Besides, this is tax reform week. Why do you hate America?
Derek00
Member
The new American flag should just be that picture of a dumpster fire everyone posts on Twitter.
Evan
Member
I hope Mueller takes care of those involved on the Democratic side as well. Whether Tony Podesta or former Obama officials now working at Skadden Arps as private attorneys. Sounds like some of this goes DEEP.
If people are actually interested in "draining the swamp" they'd be backing Mueller's investigation to the hilt. Political party or ideology shouldn't matter. The corruption in DC needs to be cleaned up.
https://amp.thedailybeast.com/mueller-probe-appears-to-hit-democratic-powerhouses-too
BTW, since many in Trump world were pushing the idea over the past few days that Tony Podesta would be indicted, I think a suitable question would be how did they know what allegations were going to be made in Mueller's indictment, and that the allegations (of unidentified lobbying firms) would specifically hit Tony Podesta?
Add to that how Trump world suddenly harped on Clinton Uranium stories and other spin in the proceeding week -- how did they know indictments were about to drop and that they needed to muddy the waters? Who is leaking/talking? Someone at DOJ/FBI? Other Executive branch officials? Makes zero sense that it is Mueller or his team considering the Pappawhatever guy's plea deal didn't leak.
If people are actually interested in "draining the swamp" they'd be backing Mueller's investigation to the hilt. Political party or ideology shouldn't matter. The corruption in DC needs to be cleaned up.
https://amp.thedailybeast.com/mueller-probe-appears-to-hit-democratic-powerhouses-too
BTW, since many in Trump world were pushing the idea over the past few days that Tony Podesta would be indicted, I think a suitable question would be how did they know what allegations were going to be made in Mueller's indictment, and that the allegations (of unidentified lobbying firms) would specifically hit Tony Podesta?
Add to that how Trump world suddenly harped on Clinton Uranium stories and other spin in the proceeding week -- how did they know indictments were about to drop and that they needed to muddy the waters? Who is leaking/talking? Someone at DOJ/FBI? Other Executive branch officials? Makes zero sense that it is Mueller or his team considering the Pappawhatever guy's plea deal didn't leak.
gangstonc
Member
Yes, Pappawhatever was arrested and plead guilty without anybody knowing about it. They had his emails, and he was intimately involved in the Trump campaign. I am shocked nothing was leaked about this.
gangstonc
Member
"It is very distracting for the president to be investigated for something" - Chief of Staff Kelly on Mueller investigation on Fox
My how the story has changed!
My how the story has changed!
gangstonc
Member
The day Papadapolous lied to the FBI is January 27th.
That evening, Trump ate dinner with Comey and asked him for a loyalty pledge.
That evening, Trump ate dinner with Comey and asked him for a loyalty pledge.
One terrible aspect of the new tax plan is the elimination of the Adoption Tax Credit. Adoption has become expensive and the tax credit provides great financial help to middle class families that want to adopt children. How hypocritical is it for the party who supposedly opposes abortion then turns around and makes it more difficult for American families to adopt unwanted children? Fake family values
I also see that the new Trump/Repub tax plan takes away the deduction for families who experience high medical expenses. So let's penalize really sick people and people who have children with medical disabilities
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Found this poll quite intriguing, especially since the sample includes many from older generations who have a better perspective on the state of the union than myself:
Poll: 59% of Americans said this is the lowest point in US history they can remember
"To help underscore just how difficult people perceive the current moment to be, the APA made a graphic to remind us of the most horrible events each generation has lived through, including World War II, the Vietnam War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the September 11 terrorist attacks." "each group all said now is the worst time."
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I can only assume that "set in concrete" ideology and partisanship is the primary reason for this dissatisfaction.
Poll: 59% of Americans said this is the lowest point in US history they can remember
"To help underscore just how difficult people perceive the current moment to be, the APA made a graphic to remind us of the most horrible events each generation has lived through, including World War II, the Vietnam War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the September 11 terrorist attacks." "each group all said now is the worst time."
I can only assume that "set in concrete" ideology and partisanship is the primary reason for this dissatisfaction.
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