Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[Matt]

He doesn't know whether he agrees or disagrees, he just threw out "Madcow" and thought that was some sort of A+ response.

When Huffpo says a liberal is wrong, you have a problem.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rachel-maddow-niger-travel-ban_us_59ea060fe4b05b4f1c3ad52f

 

[Derek00]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/...ed-immigration.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

There is nothing "great" about the America we're currently living in. This is absolutely disgusting and makes me ashamed to be a citizen of this country.

Republicans like to talk about their "Christian values." There is nothing Christ-like about things like this. It's pure evil.

 

[Kory]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/...ed-immigration.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

There is nothing "great" about the America we're currently living in. This is absolutely disgusting and makes me ashamed to be a citizen of this country.

Republicans like to talk about their "Christian values." There is nothing Christ-like about things like this. It's pure evil.

Much how I feel about the left promoting and celebrating the extermination of humans whilst in the womb. "Freedom, equality, and right to life for all" excludes the most innocent and vulnerable of our species. Are we really a beacon of morality and righteousness as a country? I don't think so....and it goes far beyond just "Republicans and Christians"....

 

[KoD]

Much how I feel about the left promoting and celebrating the extermination of humans whilst in the womb. "Freedom, equality, and right to life for all" excludes the most innocent and vulnerable of our species. Are we really a beacon of morality and righteousness as a country? I don't think so....and it goes far beyond just "Republicans and Christians"....

Promoting and celebrating? Nobody goes into a clinic considering an abortion with party balloons and whistles. The thing the left have a problem with, is the right forcing their beliefs about abortion and morality on the rest of the population - as if their beliefs should be the law of the land and no one else is entitled to their own beliefs. If the folks on the right think abortions are wrong then they can go on not having abortions.
You can go on about how fetuses are entitled to their own rights too and how abortion is murder and infringes on those rights. That may be your opinion, but none of that makes a pro-life belief more "important" than a pro-choice belief and none of it gives a pro-lifer the authority to dictate the whole countries practice on the matter.

This extends far beyond abortion, and far beyond the right. The left is no victim when it comes to "my way or the highway" and that is exactly what's wrong with politics today. There's no compromise, and with hot-button issues like abortion being thrown into every budget bill or healthcare bill or even discussion, we're gonna be stuck with having no compromise for awhile. No side is going to forfeit on abortion because both sides feel equally justified in their beliefs and nothing will likely change that for decades.

 

[Mike S]

Promoting and celebrating? Nobody goes into a clinic considering an abortion with party balloons and whistles. The thing the left have a problem with, is the right forcing their beliefs about abortion and morality on the rest of the population - as if their beliefs should be the law of the land and no one else is entitled to their own beliefs. If the folks on the right think abortions are wrong then they can go on not having abortions.

You realize the same is true from the left, cramming their idea of morality down the throats of others, etc. If anything, the left in this country is many times worse and the country is suffering as a result.

Its because of this we have this jerk in the White House now.

 

[KoD]

You realize the same is true from the left, cramming their idea of morality down the throats of others, etc. If anything, the left in this country is many times worse and the country is suffering as a result.

Its because of this we have this jerk in the White House now.

I do say pretty much exactly that, the left is no victim here and does the same thing the right does.

 

[gangstonc]

When Huffpo says a liberal is wrong, you have a problem.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rachel-maddow-niger-travel-ban_us_59ea060fe4b05b4f1c3ad52f

I don't care if somebody is a liberal or a conservative. The fact is that the actions of Trump diminished our support in the region.

 

[maroonedinhsv]

Promoting and celebrating? Nobody goes into a clinic considering an abortion with party balloons and whistles. The thing the left have a problem with, is the right forcing their beliefs about abortion and morality on the rest of the population - as if their beliefs should be the law of the land and no one else is entitled to their own beliefs. If the folks on the right think abortions are wrong then they can go on not having abortions.
You can go on about how fetuses are entitled to their own rights too and how abortion is murder and infringes on those rights. That may be your opinion, but none of that makes a pro-life belief more "important" than a pro-choice belief and none of it gives a pro-lifer the authority to dictate the whole countries practice on the matter.

This extends far beyond abortion, and far beyond the right. The left is no victim when it comes to "my way or the highway" and that is exactly what's wrong with politics today. There's no compromise, and with hot-button issues like abortion being thrown into every budget bill or healthcare bill or even discussion, we're gonna be stuck with having no compromise for awhile. No side is going to forfeit on abortion because both sides feel equally justified in their beliefs and nothing will likely change that for decades.

Just to be clear, Christian beliefs are in fact the basis for many "laws of the land". Where do you draw the line? If there was no Christian influence on our laws, this country would be a very different place.

 

[KoD]

Just to be clear, Christian beliefs are in fact the basis for many "laws of the land". Where do you draw the line? If there was no Christian influence on our laws, this country would be a very different place.

Religious beliefs, Christian beliefs especially, have pathed the way for civilization as we know it today to prosper. We should all be thankful for that. No doubt this would be a different world and a different country without it.
To answer your question, I try to do the best I can. Critical thinking, putting yourself in others shoes, hearing testimony from all sides and forming your own, hopefully unbiased-as-possible opinion. There's nothing about it that's as simple as drawing a line. Abortion is tragic, in every way. But it's a choice I believe we all should have the freedom to make.

 

[Matt]

Today's speech from Senator Flake (R)

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...jeff-flake-senate-speech-full-text/794958001/

And what does the coward do ? Quit! Real man!

 

[gangstonc]

And what does the coward do ? Quit! Real man!

Yes, the words would mean a lot more from somebody who is going to run for office.

 

[KoD]

And what does the coward do ? Quit! Real man!

IIRC Sen. Flake had abysmal approval ratings and only narrowly won his last run, so his statement that he won't run again is rather empty. It was however a very well articulated and moving speech imo.

 

[KoD]

First charges have been filed in the Mueller investigation. I presume we will find out over the weekend who is involved.

 

[KoD]

CNN - BREAKING NEWS: First Charges in Mueller Investigation

MSNBC - BREAKING NEWS: First Charges Filed in Mueller Probe

FOX NEWS - "Major developments in several democrat scandals including the controversial Uranium One deal." (Hannity tweets: "When will @HillaryClinton be indicted?")

FOXNEWS.COM - SCANDAL SIMMERING: Pressure mounts on Mueller to resign over FBI ties to dossier scandal.

 

[gangstonc]

CNN - BREAKING NEWS: First Charges in Mueller Investigation

MSNBC - BREAKING NEWS: First Charges Filed in Mueller Probe

FOX NEWS - "Major developments in several democrat scandals including the controversial Uranium One deal." (Hannity tweets: "When will @HillaryClinton be indicted?")

FOXNEWS.COM - SCANDAL SIMMERING: Pressure mounts on Mueller to resign over FBI ties to dossier scandal.

Amazing difference.

 

[Evan]

The reporting on the Hill piece is extremely shady. There also seems to be a direct link between the stories coming out of Circa (where the main author of this piece came from) and some of the investigatory threads that Grassley is focusing on.

All the pieces seem to be aimed at discrediting Mueller, Comey, McCabe, Rosenstein, and anyone involved in the Steele dossier while saying Clinton is guilty of the same actions that Trump is guilty of.

It is all calculated. Personally, the smoke and mirrors of this entire thing is disconcerting. It is pretty obvious that neither side cares about their own behavior and actions. It is left to those of us that mistrust both,
to support the neutral Congressional Inquiries and Mueller's investigation.

Remember, Trump surrogates praised Mueller when they thought he was going to quickly clear Trump. When it became obvious that Trump was a focal point of his investigation they turned in him and have tried to smear him with every opportunity they get.

What's amazing is seeing the Russian bots and hardcore Trumpists constantly attack and denigrate Sessions. The day is coming very soon to where supporting Trump or supporting Sessions will be mutually exclusive.

Hmm...

 

[Evan]

Don't know if the target on the indictment will leak yet or if an arrest will be made. Possible. Probable. Guaranteed? No.

I do think this grand jury leak is interesting. No way it is from Mueller's team, but it is made to appear that way. My best guess is that the defense is leaking or someone very junior at DOJ that happens to have access to some info. In fact, the leaks in and of themselves seem to be a way to "discredit" the credibility of the Mueller investigation.

If I had to bet, I'd say the indictment is likely Manafort, Page, or Flynn. Probably in that order from most likely to "not quite yet." I hesitated on swapping Flynn and Carter. I think this is an attempt to flip someone to corroborate evidence that needs corroboration and to potentially elicit a reaction from the Trump admin.

I've never had high hopes that Trump ends up directly implicated. The Russians wanted to create division and sow chaos. I don't think they originally had a preference for Trump. I don't know how much Trump even knew if he knew things. I'm not saying Trump is innocent. I think he's likely committed a number of crimes over the years. And, I think he may be aware of SOME of the dirty stuff his campaign or associates were up to.

But although he is impulsive, Trump isn't completely stupid. And, he had people looking out for him. Most importantly, people who could implicate him know he has pardon power. It is unlike almost anything we've ever seen.

I've always felt DIRECT evidence showing Trump did something illegal was highly unlikely. It will be be a level or two "away" from him. Unless, his arrogance was such that he and his team were sloppy, or the potential crimes are related not necessarily related to the election. Bribery, money laundering, honest services fraud, tax/financial crimes, etc.

And nothing is going to happen with that while Trump is President, and a lot of Republicans have been telegraphing they will never back impeachment regardless of what is revealed.

All of the Clinton Uranium stuff and the dossier lunacy that was recently rekindled, was pushed by sources and outlets close to the Trump administration. I alluded to this over a week ago. It was calculated. An attempt to discredit Mueller and all of those involved in the investigation at various levels and at various stages. It is also meant to make this partisan and to try to poison the well against Mueller's findings.

I don't think the investigation is over. I think this is the initial bomb, and the WH has been frantically playing cards to try to inoculate themselves and shift attention.

As I said, I don't think stuff from Trump's business past or casual links to the Russia stuff (even if Kushner or Don Jr. get popped) would cause the GOP to back impeachment. That stuff won't matter while Trump is President. Only one thing will. Obstruction of justice. If he did obstruct justice to protect Manafort, Flynn, Don Jr., Kushner, or anyone else close to him -- that's the one way they can get him and he can go down.

Hannity and Team Trump are going nuts. They've been preparing for this. It would almost be fun to watch if it wasn't so serious. Sparks are about to fly.

 

[Evan]

It's Flynn. 98% positive.

 

[KoD]

Obama (D) – 8 yrs in office. Zero criminal indictments, zero convictions and zero prison sentences.

Bush, George W. (R) – 8 yrs in office. 16 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 9 prison sentences.

Clinton (D) – 8 yrs in office. 2 criminal indictments. One conviction. One prison sentence.

Bush, George H. W. (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. One conviction. One prison sentence.

Reagan (R) – 8 yrs in office. 26 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 8 prison sentences.

Carter (D) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. Zero convictions and zero prison sentences.

Ford (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment and one conviction. One prison sentence.

Nixon (R) – 6 yrs in office. 76 criminal indictments. 55 convictions. 15 prison sentences.

Johnson (D) – 5 yrs in office. Zero indictments. Zero convictions. Zero prison sentences.

In the last 53 years, Democrats have been in the Oval Office for 25 of those years, while Republicans held it for 28. In their 25 yrs in office Democrats had a total of three executive branch officials indicted with one conviction and one prison sentence.

In the 28 yrs that Republicans have held office over the last 53 yrs they have had a total of, 120 criminal indictments of executive branch officials. 89 criminal convictions and 34 prison sentences handed down. If you want to count articles of impeachment as indictments, both sides get one more.

 

[Mike S]

If you had Manafort, you're a WINNER!