Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[gangstonc]

View attachment 96

Fake news?

 

[David in SW Blount]

Everyone wants results, but there's no reason why action and decorum have to be mutually exclusive. We can have action without alienating everyone except White, straight, Evangelicals.

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[Evan]

I thought it was pretty clever. Trump is fit to be president. He has hired very good people in my opinion. He is doing what he said he was going to do. I know that is unheard of in politics (especially Washington, D. C. politics). He has not perfected the political language because he has not been a politician his entire adult life unlike most of the folks in D.C. Just give the man a chance!

We have. Repeatedly. No one has forced his to constantly lie and prattle narcissisticly about his supposed accomplishments (which are more often than not completely false or a misleading exaggeration).

I don't understand the idea that a New York City Billionaire born into tremendous wealth, given millions of dollars in loans by his father, bailed out by his father, and ultimately saved by inheriting hundreds of millions of dollars from his father is the "real" speaker or example for the American people and American workers.

Unless we are to believe all Trump voters are knuckle-dragging fools, the idea that people oppose Trump because of Liberal tendencies, jealousy, political correctness, or elitism is just nonsense. Neither of my parents went to college. None of their parents went to college. My background is 100% blue collar. Telephone line worker, steel mill workers, hairdresser, and factory worker.

My father became somewhat white collar solely by force of will. Thanks to the United States Army, he was taught leadership skills and organizational how-tos when he was drafted during Vietnam (while Trump screwed around on his college deferments and then located a quack doctor that said a tiny bone spur was disqualifying), and he worked his way up from cleaning toilets and stocking shelves to a successful Executive at a 5 billion dollar corporation (back in 1991). He taught us never ever to judge someone because of their social status nor to let someone look down on us because of their wealth or elitism. While the other company executives lived in Mansions or massive homes in Mountain Brook and Vestavia, he built a much smaller and affordable home in Pleasant Grove. He wasn't comfortable over the Mountain. He lived just a few miles from his boyhood home in Hueytown.

He was always afraid of losing it all because he didn't have a college degree. That's why he got up at 3:30-4:00am 6 days a week. Monday-Friday he worked from 5am to 6pm at the office. Came home and spent about an hour to an hour and a half talking to us and eating dinner. Then retired to his office to do paperwork and more work until 10pm or later. He didn't drink or smoke. He was a strong Christian man. And he didn't feel comfortable at the fancy clubs and restaurants, and was only truly comfortable on the Western Side of town with the people he grew up with. Sons of coal miners, steel workers, factory workers, and the utility companies.

He died in a tragic accident when I was 8 years old back in 1991. He would have found Trump to be extremely distasteful, dishonest, and absolutely contrary to his values and morals. He was a blue collar as they come. As I said, that's my entire family. I don't think a UAB degree makes me some kind of elitist.

It is possible for people to absolutely reject Trump and what he stands for, and it has zero to do with being a namby-pamby white collar elitist that was brainwashed by a liberal University. For me, he conflicts with my values and beliefs. I will choose the values and morals I was taught by great men in my life, and that I learned through 8 years of Christian school and attending church since I was born.

It isn't because I'm PC, elitist, or want Trump to fail. It is because he is a disgusting and revolting abuser, a narcissist, and completely unqualified to be the President of The United States of America.

 

[Kory]

Fake news?

There's nothing fake about the stats. It's the interpretation factor that comes in. It's certainly not a coincidence that as immigration increases from a certain region in the world that doesn't regard women in a high manner that violent crimes against them increases. I'm not connecting this to Trump in any way but his comments bring up a disturbing phenomena in Sweden.

This quote below perfectly sums up how I feel.

This is a near-perfect example of how Trumpian rhetoric polarizes the electorate. Why? Because Trump was wrong to say that something had happened in Sweden “last night” – nothing happened that night – but he was right to point out the increased crime problem among Muslim immigrants to Sweden. Conservatives reacted to Trump’s comments by pretending that Trump had never used the phrase “last night”; leftists pretend that nothing terrible had ever happened in Sweden.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/13692/trumps-sweden-kerfuffle-shows-why-right-trusts-him-ben-shapiro

 

[gangstonc]

There's nothing fake about the stats. It's the interpretation factor that comes in. It's certainly not a coincidence that as immigration increases from a certain region in the world that doesn't regard women in a high manner that violent crimes against them increases. I'm not connecting this to Trump in any way but his comments bring up a disturbing phenomena in Sweden.

This quote below perfectly sums up how I feel.


http://www.dailywire.com/news/13692/trumps-sweden-kerfuffle-shows-why-right-trusts-him-ben-shapiro

My point was that the gentleman's quote was massaged be a right leaning news source to better fit their narrative.

 

[Evan]

There's nothing fake about the stats. It's the interpretation factor that comes in. It's certainly not a coincidence that as immigration increases from a certain region in the world that doesn't regard women in a high manner that violent crimes against them increases. I'm not connecting this to Trump in any way but his comments bring up a disturbing phenomena in Sweden.

This quote below perfectly sums up how I feel.


http://www.dailywire.com/news/13692/trumps-sweden-kerfuffle-shows-why-right-trusts-him-ben-shapiro

Not so much about the data being fake. It is whether or not the conclusions being made are proper or accurate, and whether comparisons being made are apples to apples.

Sweden uses a very broad definition of "rape" which has been changed or expanded several times since 2003. Additionally, Swedish society sees a higher rate of reporting than other countries or societies.

There's a reason articles attributing this to refugees or migrants are choosing 2003 as a baseline year for comparative purposes. Because that was a time before the broadened definition of rape came into force.

Furthermore, a lot of what is offered as evidence is primarily anecdotal examples then bolstered by the cherry picked stats (referring to using 2003 as a baseline). The study of crime stats is actually quite complex. That's why comparing FBI UCRs to NCVS reports are somewhat fraught with danger. They measure crime and define it in two separate ways.

http://www.thelocal.se/20170112/swedens-2016-crime-stats-analyzed

http://www.ipsnews.net/2011/02/rape-as-sweden-redefines-it-2/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/11/are-migrants-really-raping-swedish-women.html

 

[Evan]

BTW, notice how the official number of rapes differs from the self-reported victims of rape. Unless we are to believe hordes of rapists are reporting their own crimes, the broadening of the rape definition, and the counting of individual rape occurrences (vs a victim being raped 7 times in two days being reported as 1 rape) seems to be a huge reason here. I

 

[David in SW Blount]

BTW, notice how the official number of rapes differs from the self-reported victims of rape. Unless we are to believe hordes of rapists are reporting their own crimes, the broadening of the rape definition, and the counting of individual rape occurrences (vs a victim being raped 7 times in two days being reported as 1 rape) seems to be a huge reason here. I

But correlation always equals causation, when it fits a narrative!

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[PerryW]

It isn't because I'm PC, elitist, or want Trump to fail. It is because he is a disgusting and revolting abuser, a narcissist, and completely unqualified to be the President of The United States of America.

My thoughts exactly Evan. Unfortunately unless Trump resigns, is impeached, etc.......he is the president until January 20, 2021. Am praying and hoping for he best. At least so far, he has been better than Obama; better than I believe Hillary would have been.

 

[Matt]

We were "this" close to losing the country as we know it had Clinton won. This fight is against the "establishment" in both parties. They(establishment) have led us right into the crapper. Millions of Americans recognized that Hillary would literally ruin the country and voted in the only person they felt could reverse course. He may be brash, petulant at times, uncouth, rude, you name it. I don't give a rats money maker at this point as long as he does what he says he wants to do. Hell, if he does half of what he said would be amazing. I will sacrifice decorum for action. And Ryan and McConnell and other wishy washy republicans had better get on board. The gnashing of teeth over Trump will only result in fewer teeth. Stop and give the man a chance.

 

[Evan]

We were "this" close to losing the country as we know it had Clinton won. This fight is against the "establishment" in both parties. They(establishment) have led us right into the crapper. Millions of Americans recognized that Hillary would literally ruin the country and voted in the only person they felt could reverse course. He may be brash, petulant at times, uncouth, rude, you name it. I don't give a rats money maker at this point as long as he does what he says he wants to do. Hell, if he does half of what he said would be amazing. I will sacrifice decorum for action. And Ryan and McConnell and other wishy washy republicans had better get on board. The gnashing of teeth over Trump will only result in fewer teeth. Stop and give the man a chance.

Why should he be judged on a scale different than any other President? He's issued a couple of EOs (one which was disaster outerwise it wouldn't be being re-written), held a campaign rally, and nominated Gorsuch. I absolutely give him credit for Gorsuch. Did not think he would follow through, however, he had a lot of people telling him he had to.

I have to balance Gorsuch and his EO about regulations (which should have had some exemptions) that I largely agree with against things like the Flynn disaster, Bannon on the NSC, praise for Putin/Russia and anti-American comments like we have plenty of killers too. I've made my opinion known on his disastrous immigration EO, and the leaks coming out or the WH are ultimately 100% on Trump. He said he would only hire the best. Leaks coming from other parts of the government are not yet his fault, and he shouldn't be blamed for them.

I'm willing to give credit to Trump when due. I'm also willing to criticize him when warranted, and notice I haven't jumped on every story or comment he has made.

Nonetheless, why should I hold him to a lesser standard or accept an excuse he is from the private sector so he needs time to figure it out? POTUS is not OTJ training friendly, and anyone running should be ready to go from day one.

There is likely some major criticism of Trump that I've missed in this post, and probably some positives or successes as well. Right now, his inability to accept even constructive criticism, his campaign links to Russia, and his propaganda style commentary in reference to the media is absolutely disturbing. And there is not yet enough good to balance any of that out.

The problem for me is the Trump fans that say to give him more time, buy his propaganda, or absolutely refuse to criticize his actions. Why not criticize what's broken? Trump looks for confirmation from his fans AND the media. When his fans refuse to engage in any critical discussion about him it actually weakens Trump. He hears their constant praise and adulation, while receiving critical questions or reporting from the media, and that's why he calls it fake news. Because his fans and fervent supporters are unwilling to constructively criticism him so that he CAN learn.

The refusal to criticize Trump, even when definitely warranted, is exactly what kool-aid Obama supporters did. It didn't make Obama a stronger or better President, and it won't do it for Trump, either. It was a major source of Obama's pettiness and cavalier attitude on some topics, and ironically sometimes Obama's adulation was coming from certain media outlets or members.

How can we expect politicians to be honest and do what we want when we aren't honest with them and tell them what we want. Did you really want the EO to get tied up in court forcing a re-write? I highly doubt it. So why not make that known to Trump so that he learns instead of claiming everything went smoothly? It makes him look like a fool and a liar. It isn't about controlling a media narrative it is about actually telling our leaders when they do well and when they screw up.

The Establishment, the radicals, and the voters all share blame. I completely disagree with the idea that American voters are blameless and always get it right. If they are, why do we re-elect some of the same failed incumbents? Why was Shelby re-elected in Alabama? Why was Bentley? The voters (the American public) are just as much to blame as the politicians. They are a reflection of our society and a decent amount of the time they actually try to do what we ask them to do. It is just what we aren't always honest about what we really wanted and make excuses for them.

 

[Evan]

BTW, McMaster as NSA is an excellent choice.

 

[KoD]

 

[ghost]

Alan Colmes has passed away after a brief illness. He was a liberal political commentator on Fox Newa and co-anchored a show with conservative Sean Hannity for several years. Even though they were adversaries on the stage in front of the cameras, they were close friends away from the stage. Colmes was liked and respected by many who did not share his views. Prayers and comfort to his family

 

[PerryW]

Alan Colmes has passed away after a brief illness. He was a liberal political commentator on Fox Newa and co-anchored a show with conservative Sean Hannity for several years. Even though they were adversaries on the stage in front of the cameras, they were close friends away from the stage. Colmes was liked and respected by many who did not share his views. Prayers and comfort to his family

Yes, he was also former Fox contributor Monica Crowley's brother in law. Even though I didn't agree with Alan on many issues, he was someone I liked and respected, and am deeply saddened to learn of his passing. May he Rest In Peace

 

[Kory]

Remember when universities actually offered educations to better the futures of its students?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...college-students-demand-non-whites-space.html

 

[Kory]

Alan Colmes has passed away after a brief illness. He was a liberal political commentator on Fox Newa and co-anchored a show with conservative Sean Hannity for several years. Even though they were adversaries on the stage in front of the cameras, they were close friends away from the stage. Colmes was liked and respected by many who did not share his views. Prayers and comfort to his family

He earned the respect of most conservatives because he was respectful in presenting his side and was well versed on the FACTS. That's something that is all too uncommon today in political commentary in the media.

 

[gangstonc]

Barring certain members of the media from attending press briefings is horrible.

Was C-SPAN barred or did they not cover it out of solidarity for the others?

I saw where somebody said press briefings are now a safe space for republicans.

 

[KoD]

CNN, NYT, Politico, LA Times, Buzzfeed, the BBC and others were barred from attending.

Breitbart News, The Washington Times, OANN, ABC, CBS, NBC, WSJ, Bloomberg, and Fox News were allowed in.

The AP and TIME boycotted the press conference.


More outrageous actions from the Trump administration. Are they seeing what they can get away with? Really bad PR continues, they obviously don't care about uniting the American people against common causes... Just pushing the agenda they care about in which a minority of people agree with.

 

[PerryW]

Barring certain members of the media from attending press briefings is horrible.
.

I wouldn't call it horrible, but is embarrassing. It once again makes Donald Trump look childish and petty. He needs to act more presidential.