Obama's legacy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Matt, Oct 4, 2017.

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  1. Matt

    Matt Member

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  2. Evan

    Evan Member

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    This piece is incoherent. He says there is cultural rot in our armed forces and refers specifically to infidelity, sexual misconduct, graft, bribes, and corruption. His solution is to make the Commander and Chief of our military a man that has bragged about essentially bribing politicians to do his bidding, openly cheated on his wife, has misused the court system with vexatious litigation, bragged about grabbing women in their genital area without their consent, has ignored federal nepotism laws to place his son-in-law and daughter in high ranking White House positions, closely associated himself with numerous people convicted of financial fraud, swindling investors, and bribing foreign governments, and made just such a man the chair of his electoral campaign? I guess his solution makes sense if you are using copious amounts of hallucinogenic drugs, but otherwise...?

    As far as the Communist at West Point, Schlichter has repeatedly stated that his litmus test for whether or not something is politically good is whether or not it pisses off liberals. So what's the issue with a Commie at West Point? Perhaps his goal is to piss off Trumpers. Seems like Schlichter believes it should be do as I say not as I do.

    As I said, his arguments are incoherent. Completely contradictory. I guess all that is Obama's fault as well. He just made everyone unable to think logically.
     
  3. KoD

    KoD Member
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    Wish I could've voted him in a 3rd term. ;)
     
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  4. Matt

    Matt Member

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    I'm sure you would have.
     
    #4 Matt, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  5. Matt

    Matt Member

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  6. Kory

    Kory Member

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    On a side note, Trump dealt a huge blow to Obama's "crowning achievement" yesterday with his executive order. And by crowning achievement, really his only achievement. Obama failed to de-escalate the Middle Eastern conflicts, failed on his promise for gun control, had the slowest economic recovery post recession, failed on stopped the "JV team" ISIS, failed on his promise to close Guantanamo, and the list goes on....
     
  7. Evan

    Evan Member

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    Electing Trump is supposed to fix the USMA? The author of the letter is rightly upset about the dishonesty, lack of honor, unethical behavior, and refusal to adhere to preset USMA & Army standards. How can any of that change, when the Commander and Chief is guilty of all those same infractions? Especially, if you consider, the same refusal to condemn, the same lack of accountability, and the same lack of personal responsibility, that the author calls out, permeates the entire Trump administration and the upper echelons of much of our society.

    You voted for this. A little too late to worry about West Point standards or military culture, when there were candidates running that had infinitely higher character and moral authority.

    When you elevate people of poor character and morals to a high level leadership position, and justify their flaws with moral relativism, you are sending a very clear message to the people they are supposed to be leading.

    It's not just Trump. It's Sean Spicer, a naval officer, standing at a White House podium, and LYING to the American people at the behest of his boss. Do you think our military did not notice?

    It's also Kellyanne Conway and her "alternative facts," Bannon's sophistry,
    Scaramucci's contemptible behavior, Price's private jets, and Zinke's monarchical flags. It's all of that and more, but the true rot is at the top. Because that's his team, acting on his instructions, and lowering their standards, too.

    How can you pretend that standards and conduct are important, if you continue to justify and dismiss Trump's actions and behavior? Because the argument "I'm voting for a President not a pastor" is just a false dilemma; we are electing a General, not a politician, and Generals are supposed to have standards.

    BUT Obama you say! He lacked moral clarity and Trump does not! That's quite true I suppose, Obama's moral clarity was often opaque. Thankfully, Trump doesn't make us guess. He's upfront about his own utter lack of character and his belief that winning trumps morality. And, he knows his supporters don't care, either. Because, as they say, when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
     
  8. Evan

    Evan Member

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    Has Trump changed our strategy for defeating ISIS? I haven't seen any changes or the implementation of his "secret" plan. I was wondering if someone could point out to me to what has changed.

    If we are going to say Obama failed at closing Gitmo (which is technically true), then we should say Trump has failed at repealing and replacing the ACA with a better option, implementing his 100 day agenda, etc. Obama and Trump both made a number of politically naive promise. Largely due to their lack of experience governing and their craven desire to be elected above all else.

    I certainly don't want to defend Obama on Gitmo, because he was dumb/naive enough to make a promise to close it. But, let's be a little more nuanced about a rather complex issue. Gitmo didn't close because Congress effectively blocked its closure in the annual DMAA and the DoD never ever wanted it closed. Obama deserves both credit and criticism on Gitmo. He could changed his position and "evolved" like he did on gay marriage, but he didn't. He continued to try to close Gitmo up until he left office. He just wasn't willing to expend the necessary political capital (which was a lot) to make it happen, and he was quite hamstrung by Congress. But that is really Obama in a nutshell. He was a habitual fence sitter who would loudly say only one side of the fence was worth a damn. His heavy use of drones, in an attempt to keep the War on Terror hot, so he could draw down forces in Afghanistan is another good example. He didn't want to risk the political capital needed, but he also didn't want to do nothing.

    This is exactly why I said his moral clarity on issues was often opaque. The man's image and standing was balanced against actually achieving his goals, and led to things like an extended Syrian conflict and Assad getting off the hook.

    Trump claims to be making a lot of decisions and taking actions that he claims Obama was too spineless to do, but so far his rhetoric isn't matched by actual results or actions. That's my issue with both of them. I get the political realities and complexity of a lot of these issues, but they both love to use rhetoric in lieu of concrete actions.
     
  9. Kory

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    The plan put forth under by the Pentagon under Trump was similar, but critical tweaks has helped speed up the defeat of ISIS. Still a ways to go, but reports of major losses and surrendering "en masse" of ISIS fighters is very positive news.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/i...trump-or-obama-get-the-credit/article/2636767
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/world/middleeast/isis-iraq-surrender.html

    But I am in no way defending Trump. He has been quite ineffective so far into his presidency. A lot of promises have been broken. As you mentioned the failed repeal/replace of ACA. He ripped the DACA plan put forth by Obama, yet is working with Dems to keep it. He won't fight for the "wall" funding, instead he claimed that the wall was just a "refurbishing of old, existing walls." There are rumblings on him wavering with the Paris Climate Deal and even a shift on gun control. His response to Puerto Rico was extremely bad. Only bright spot was the Gorsech nomination and rolling back of regulations (which has been impressive I might add).
     
  10. Evan

    Evan Member

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    I largely agree with the vast majority of your points. On the subject of ISIS, I think most reasonable people knew that Trump didn't actually have a secret plan. It seems what he did was loosen up the Toe, and that allowed the overall strategy to be tweaked to more rapidly degraded and destroy ISIS.

    I think most of the regulations that Trump got rid of shouldn't have existed, so I give him credit for that. However, a few regulations should have been left alone. Especially ones that were repealed because Trump met with a rich guy from the affected industry and he said we'd like you to get rid of this, so Trump did. That bothers me to an extent.

    I'm happy about Gorsuch so far. A tiny bit of concern that he's voting and writing so similar to Clarence Thomas. I'm not a big Clarence Thomas fan for several reasons. I prefer Scalia/Alito. But so far he's been a good replacement.

    I continue to worry about Trump selling Conservatives out. He backed off on the Dreamers, but straddled the line on gun control. It seems like Strange's loss in Alabama set him off, so he's back to appealing to his hard-core base.
     
  11. DB1313

    DB1313 Member

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    Compared to the awful human garbage we have now? I would've voted him in for eight more terms. Whether you love him or hate him, no one with a fraction of a brain could honestly say that what we have now is better.
     
  12. Matt

    Matt Member

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    Evan, it did not take eight months for the military to be corrupted this way. It took eight years of Obama and his extremely liberal Secretaries and liberal heads of defense. They used the military as a social experiment and the result is what we are seeing today. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
     
  13. Matt

    Matt Member

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    I have at least a fraction of a brain, and I can unequivocally state that Trump is far superior than barry. In every way imaginable.
     
  14. KoD

    KoD Member
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    Even at basketball?
     
  15. Matt

    Matt Member

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    Have you seen barry shoot hoops ?
     
  16. KoD

    KoD Member
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    Here's Obama playing basketball:

    [​IMG]

    And here's Trump playing basketball:

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. ghost

    ghost Member
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    KoD got you Matt :D
     
  18. Matt

    Matt Member

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    Real unemployment is improving
    Stock market at historical highs. 5 trillion in new wealth
    Consumer confidence is up
    Illegal immigration is down 70%
    America is a net exporter of energy
    Iran deal not re-certified. Sent to Congress where it should have been in the first place
    Executive order on healthcare allows people to band together to get policies tailored to their needs
    Health insurance will be allowed to sell across state lines
    Stopped subsidies to insurance companies
     
  19. Matt

    Matt Member

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  20. Matt

    Matt Member

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    And let's not forget barry's prowess in the gym!



     

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